Hurney's round 2 and 3 Draft record vs. the League.

[bleys]

well, considering my opinion is a homer.. I guess this is me bashing the Patriots... lol

tell me this is even close to as good as Hurney, and the Pats have had a ridiculous amount of picks in 2009 alone..

2002-2009:

Deon Branch

Rohan Davey

Eugene Wilson

Bethel Johnson

Marquise Hill

Guss Scott

Ellis Hobbs

David Thomas

Chad Jackson

Terrence Wheatley

Shawn Crable

Kevin O'Connell

2009: 6 picks, wow

Patrick Chung

Ron Brace

Darius Butler

Sebastian Vollmer

BRandon Tate

Tyrone McKenzie

[CRA]

I don't know.. I guess I have to look this up? ;)

I have a feeling you're going to be let down though.. glancing at the Patriots it's worse. again, just a quick glance.

as I told Fiz when he brought up the Patriots...over the last decade the Patriots have been one of the WORST drafting teams. Most people assume b/c of their success and winning ways they have knocked drafts out of the park......but they haven't. Undrafted kids, free agents.....they have hit on a lot of key cogs. NE has retained a very limited number of draft picks compared to other teams when looking at early in the past decade.

[bleys]

I have always respected the talent on the Cowboys, whether you hate them or not..

2002-2009

Andre Curode

Antonio Bryant

Derek Ross

Al Johnson

Jason Witten

Julius Jones

Jacob Rogers

Stephen Peterman

Kevin Burnett

Anthony Fasano

Jason Hatcher

James Marten

Martellus Bennett

Jason Williams

Robert Brewster

[bleys]

as I told Fiz when he brought up the Patriots...over the last decade the Patriots have been one of the WORST drafting teams. Most people assume b/c of their success and winning ways they have knocked drafts out of the park......but they haven't.

I got ya.. just pulling random teams out of my hat. I'll look up Green Bay..

[bleys]

Green Bay looks better than the last 2..

2002-2009

Jordy Nelson

Brian Brohm

Patrick Lee]

Jermichael Finley

Brandon Jackson

James Jones

Aaron Rouse

Daryn Colledge

Greg Jennings

Abdul Hodge

Jason Spitz

Nick Collins

Terrence Murphy

Joey Thomas

Donnell Washington

BJ Sander

Kenny Peterson

Marques Anderson

[bleys]

San Diego Chargers

2002-2009

Donald Butler

Louis Vasquez

Jacob Hester

Eric Weddle

Anthony Waters

Marcus McNeill

Charlie Whitehurst

Vincent Jackson

Igor Olshansky

Nate Kaeding

Nick Hardwick

Drayton Florence

Terrance Kiel

Courtney Van Buren

Toniu Fonoti

Reche Caldwell

Ben Leber

[bleys]

I see 1 Pro Bowler.

That is weak....regardless of the homer spin we can make for players. 1 Pro bowler is weak stuff with all those picks. How many GMs that have been w/ a team for 10 years have found 1 Pro Bowler in those key rounds?

and we have more than 1 pro bowler on that list, btw...

you can go technical on that, but it's not as cut and dry as you make it sound.

I see key players we have drafted on our roster from these rounds. we have 4 guys who either have been or should have went. you can't blame inefficient voting for guys who deserve to go but never got enough votes.

[CRA]

and we have more than 1 pro bowler on that list, btw...

you can go technical on that, but it's not as cut and dry as you make it sound.

I see key players we have drafted on our roster from these rounds. we have 4 guys who either have been or should have went. you can't blame inefficient voting for guys who deserve to go but never got enough votes.

Who went to the pro bowl not named Kalil?

also, you gotta be careful just listing draft picks from 2002-2009 from various teams. There can be multiple GMs teams have used during that span.

[bleys]

All these guys should have made it at least once.. and Charles Johnson will make it regardless.

Will Witherspoon

Travelle Wharton

Charles Johnson

Ryan Kalil

also, I'm not here to put in 15 hours of extensive research. my point is Hurney hasn't flopped in the 2nd and 3rd as most of you would have others to believe...

2005 is the biggest reason where Hurney got all this poo about his 2nd and 3rd round drafting.. Guess what happened? They fired their scouting department and went with a staff that has proven valuable. once they hired Don Gregory, no one really can point to Hurney being that bad.

[rayzor]

:lol: at the criticism for not having a lot of pro-bowlers from rounds 2 and 3...saying it was a weak record. lol

for starters, i've said it many times in here...pro bowl is a joke and shallow designation anymore. it's little more than a popularity contest and more a showing of who is on big market/hyped teams than them actually being the most talented in the league. that aside....

there have been a total of 533 picks made in the 2nd and 3rd rounds between 2002 and 2009. out of those picks there have only been 34 to make it to the probowl.

breaking that down a bit:

in the 2nd round 257 total picks. 31 probowlers.

there were 11 teams that had no probowlers from that round.

of the 21 teams who had drafted probowlers...

2 teams had 3 (giants and saints)

6 teams had 2 (packers, seahawks, eagles, chargers, jaguars, vikings)

in the 3rd round

only 12 teams have drafted probowlers in that round. chargers did it twice.

in rounds 2 and 3 those who had the most luck (or had the biggest bandwagons/most hype) are the chargers (total 4), giants (4), saints (3), eagles (3)

most teams only had 1 or 2.

fwiw, among those teams with only 1 PBer... ravens, falcons, colts, and the jets.

essentially...using the pro-bowl to judge his ability to draft talent in the 2nd or 3rd round just won't win or lose the argument. it's just not something that is all that worth considering.

oh...and those teams without a PBer in either rounds 1 or 2?

bengals

browns

lions

dolphins

49ers

rams

and the patriots.

[Kurb]

waits for Fiz and/or Rayzor to destroy 90% of the dumbassery in this thread,

wait..Rayzor already has..

[Stroupe-a-loop]

The 2003 Draft

Hurney's Picks:

2nd. 50th Overall, Bruce Nelson G/C Iowa: I think most people remember the story, he and Gross were supposed to become the mainstays of our new offensive line well into the future. Unfortunately, he never got started due to a degenerative knee condition that ended his career for good in 2005. It sucks and maybe nobody deserves blame for it, but it has to be considered a bad pick.

3rd. 76th Overall, Mike Seidman TE UCLA: It's not as sad a story as Nelson, but it makes me cry almost as much. He was supposed to be an all around tight end that solidified the position for years. He ended up being best known for catching a touchdown pass from a falling, spinning Jake Delhomme in Kansas City. 18 career receptions for 158 yards. I'm going to go ahead and say failure.

82nd Overall, Ricky Manning Jr. CB UCLA: He looked like a brilliant pick early on and made a few of the biggest plays in team history. After that, he was exposed as a full time starter and then got in some trouble at a Denny's as we all sometimes do. By the end of it, I was happy Chicago signed him and we got a third rounder. You could debate it, but I say failure.

Around the League

Outstanding Picks (9) :

2nd- Eric Steinbach Cin, Charles Tillman Chi, Rashean Mathis Jac, EJ Henderson Min, Ken Hamlin Sea, Anquan Boldin Ari, Osi Umenyiora Nyg

3rd- Lance Briggs Chi, Jason Witten Dal

Successes (23) :

2nd- Boss Bailey Det, Eugene Wilson NE, John Stinchcomb NO, Al Johnson Dal, Pisa Tinoisamoa Stl, Drayton Florence SD, Kawika Mitchell KC, Chris Kelsay Buf, Victor Hobson Nyj, Anthony Adams SF, Bryan Scott Atl, Mike Doss Ind, LJ Smith Phi, Terrence Kiel SD, Dewayne White TB

3rd- Cory Redding Det, Gerald Hayes Ari, Nate Burleson Min, Vince Manuwai Jac, Derrick Dockery Was, Chris Crocker Cle, Visanthe Shiancoe Nyg, Angelo Crowell Buf,

Failures (30) :

2nd- Bennie Joppru Hou, Taylor Jacobs Was, Bethel Johnson NE, Eddie Moore Mia, Terry Pierce Den, Chaun Thompson Cle, Alonzo Jackson Pit, Tyrone Calico Ten, Teyo Johnson Oak

3rd- Kelly Washington Cin, Antwan Peak Hou, Wayne Hunter Sea, Kevin Curtis Stl, Seth Wand Hou, Musa Smith Bal, Wade Smith Mia, Kenny Peterson GB, Courtney Van Buren SD, Sam Williams Oak, BJ Askew Nyj, Cie Grant NO, Taylor Whitley Mia, Dave Ragone Hou, Andrew Williams SF, Donald Strickland Ind, Julian Battle KC, Chris Brown Ten, Billy McMullen Phi, Justin Fargas Oak, Chris Simms TB

Findings:

This is more what I expected when looking at these rounds. A handful of elite players, several starters, and a number of disappointments. Hurney was disappointing in this draft as Nelson, Seidman, and Manning Jr all turned out to not be long term starters for whatever reason and only one (Manning) was even a regular contributor. It also doesn't have the built in excuse of being as bad as the 02 draft. I'd give him a D for these picks.

[CRA]

:lol: at the criticism for not having a lot of pro-bowlers from rounds 2 and 3...saying it was a weak record. lol

for starters, i've said it many times in here...pro bowl is a joke and shallow designation anymore. it's little more than a popularity contest and more a showing of who is on big market/hyped teams than them actually being the most talented in the league. that aside....

.

and again, you can't just list random teams and claim "well, they didn't have any pro bowlers or had 1". A lot of those teams changed GM's during the 02-09 time frame b/c of talent and other teams don't put the same kind of emphasis on building through the draft Carolina does and are bigger players in free agency.

Round 2-3 Pre Hurney (Carolina 2002-1995)

Smith - Pro Bowl

Jenkins - Pro Bowl

Grant - started 144 consecutive games in the NFL up until last season

Rucker - Pro Bowl

Terry

Wiley

Marrow

Minter

Tatem

Muhammad - Pro Bowl

Oliver

King

Now, to me....it looks pretty obvious that we haven't been drafting as good in rounds 2-3 since Hurney's arrival

[mav1234]

the pro bowl is a shitty way to evaluate a GM. it's got to be one of the worst possible ways.