OL stats last year - Clausen just sucked

[CRA]

why people keep insisting that the run game's lack of production is a result of a lack of a passing attack is beyond me. in this offense, the run game sets up the pass play.

.

John Fox's offense is all about the play action.....doesn't work without. That means you don't pass often but when you do....you go for the big play.

2008 - Steve Smith lead the NFL in yards per game at WR. Play action was in full effect.

2009- wildly inconsistant but the offense was running....it was running b/c Jake and Moore were both making the big downfield throws. Not hitting them like in 2008 but the attempts were there

2010 - nothing from the pass game. Fox's offense went from running to set up the playaction downfield.....to running to set up the checkdown/throw away. That is huge. The QB play directly impacts the run game even in Fox's offense.

The run may set up the pass....but if there is no pass threat to set up the run gets bottled up. Doesn't matter how good you run block and your backfield is.

To insist the run game is not impacted by the passing offense doesn't make sense. the defensive looks change.

[blackcatgrowl]

Of course Clausen sucked. If you are a Panther's fan you know this.

The more relevant and imporant thing is that Rivera and Hurney recognized this, and drafted his replacement, who happens to be the most gifted player we've probably ever picked up in a draft.

What I think is important is who the blame falls more on. Clausen, or Fox? I think Fox can shoulder a good bit of it, and probably relegated Clausen to a backup career.

[CRA]

Of course Clausen sucked. If you are a Panther's fan you know this.

The more relevant and imporant thing is that Rivera and Hurney recognized this, and drafted his replacement, who happens to be the most gifted player we've probably ever picked up in a draft.

What I think is important is who the blame falls more on. Clausen, or Fox? I think Fox can shoulder a good bit of it, and probably relegated Clausen to a backup career.

Fox's hand was forced into having a roster of Moore and 2 rookies who didn't fit his scheme. Not sure how you can blame Fox for Jimmy not being effective in his offense....can't expect Fox to go West Coast randomly b/c Clausen is his QB.

Jake Delhomme and Matt Moore are winning QBs in Fox's offense. If you can't tread water in Fox's offense......then you ain't got no business playing a variety of offenses in the NFL IMO. Jimmy couldn't tread water.

[blackcatgrowl]

Fox's hand was forced into having a roster of Moore and 2 rookies who didn't fit his scheme. Not sure how you can blame Fox for Jimmy not being effective in his offense....can't expect Fox to go West Coast randomly b/c Clausen is his QB.

Jake Delhomme and Matt Moore are winning QBs in Fox's offense. If you can't tread water in Fox's offense......then you ain't got no business playing a variety of offenses in the NFL IMO. Jimmy couldn't tread water.

No, it's deeper than that.

Fox doesn't know how to develop QBs. Delhomme came to us with experience (NFL Europe champ, and Saints).

Don't forget, Moore sucked last year too when he was having to stand on his own.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

Fox doesn't know how to develop QBs. Delhomme came to us with experience (NFL Europe champ, and Saints).

In Fox's defense, I don't think many would consider that experience.

[blackcatgrowl]

In Fox's defense, I don't think many would consider that experience.

Uh. Kurt Warner had similar experience.

So, yeah, it's experience.

[CRA]

No, it's deeper than that.

Fox doesn't know how to develop QBs. Delhomme came to us with experience (NFL Europe champ, and Saints).

Don't forget, Moore sucked last year too when he was having to stand on his own.

Matt Moore looked pretty dang good as an undrafted rookie.

Matt Moore looked pretty dang good in 2009

Matt Moore had some bad quarters in 2010 AND some good ones.

Fox needs a QB that fits his scheme......and they don't even have to be good. Delhomme was willing to sit in a pocket and take calculated gambles downfield....that is all Fox needs.

Don't forget, Moore is a winning QB under Fox. Fox hasn't been asked to develop a lot of young QBs. Clausen and Pike almost don't count as they weren't even drafted for Fox and his scheme. Fox prefers vets.....doesn't mean a young QB can't have success with him. Moore did and has.

[blackcatgrowl]

Fox needs a QB that fits his scheme......and they don't even have to be good.

So we agree Fox can't develop QBs, and needs them pre-built. Cool.

[Cyberjag]

this is positive. Posters have bashed the OL......I was commenting they did a good job. Pro Football Focus thought they did as well.......

yeah, there is a backhanded slap at Clausen....so what? He didn't earn his paycheck last year and his play deserves to get knocked. I guess knocking Clausen consistantly is somehow more negative than those who consistantly try to place the blame everywhere else?

My point remains, this team was solid overall outside the QB spot last year. That ain't being a Debbie Downer.

You have more talent at finding the dark cloud inside every silver lining than anyone I know. :)

[Jpjr]

Did somebody give you permission to speak? We had a crappy offense because we had highly ineffective QB play... In fact there's really no change to our offense this year except for Cam and Shockey... What say you to that!?

If u don't have something productive to the conversation than just read and move on...

How is this working out for you? Handing out permission slips on a web board.

[Cyberjag]

Matt Moore looked pretty dang good as an undrafted rookie.

Matt Moore looked pretty dang good in 2009

Matt Moore had some bad quarters in 2010 AND some good ones.

Fox needs a QB that fits his scheme......and they don't even have to be good. Delhomme was willing to sit in a pocket and take calculated gambles downfield....that is all Fox needs.

Don't forget, Moore is a winning QB under Fox.

Moore was a winning QB as long as he was the backup. Maybe it was Scherer, maybe it was Fox, maybe it was Davidson, maybe it was all the rookies, it didn't matter. Moore stunk it up last year. Yes, he had some good quarters. So did Clausen. Hell, Brian St. Pierre had a good quarter. Overall though, every QB was terrible last year, and the one that you should be the least forgiving of is the one who had three years of experience in the system, but who ended up looking like another rookie.

So Clausen sucked, and Moore sucked, and Pike sucked in the very, very brief time he had an opportunity. If I'm going to bet on which two are most likely to show a big year over year improvement, it won't be the veteran...

[Jpjr]

Matt Moore looked pretty dang good as an undrafted rookie.

Matt Moore looked pretty dang good in 2009

Matt Moore had some bad quarters in 2010 AND some good ones.

Fox needs a QB that fits his scheme......and they don't even have to be good. Delhomme was willing to sit in a pocket and take calculated gambles downfield....that is all Fox needs.

Don't forget, Moore is a winning QB under Fox.

This is where your argument goes south IMO. You start threads blaming Clausen for everything, but to do so you have to justify Moore. You can't have it both ways. You can't take a Moore offense that couldn't score a single touchdown the entire preseason (even in the last game when Fox brought out the starters in the second half to play against the benchwarmers to try and score) and act like there was nothing wrong with the offense. That's what you are doing by justifying Moore's play but not Clausen's.

[Stroupe-a-loop]

Uh. Kurt Warner had similar experience.

So, yeah, it's experience.

NFL Europe had some good success stories, but it can hardly be considered experience. It was what the USFL will be now: a place where guys can go to get another look. It is not playing in the NFL. It is not experience.

[TruCatzFan]

Also let's not forget that Matty Ice was concussed early in the season... He didn't really seem like himself after that injury tbh.