What does Cam have to do

[Delhommey]

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

Causality =/= causation

There. I've covered the responses to all of KJDaniel's posts. Everyone can go to bed now.

[Delhommey]

Shut up, you fat, sweaty mongoloid. You never get higher than a D.

There. I've covered the responses to all of TheRealDeal's posts. Everyone can go to bed now.

[teeray]

Great, so find the most similar QB to Cam, in both passing stats AND rushing stats, and lets discuss. Not sure why you are unable to admit that no QB who ran as much as Cam did in college has ever been successful, but I will give you the latitude here simply so we can finally begin an honest discussion.

Except that the stats and history don't back this stance up. My stance is that QBs who run as much as Cam did in college don't develop passing skills nearly as well, which is what causes them to fail in the league.

Cam ran for 1,473 yards in his one year at Auburn. Can you name me the most successful QB who ran for even half of that on average in college?

Every player is a different entity within itself. I am not simple minded enough to just say "player x has similar stats to player z therefore player x is player z"

I mean Steve McNair had @1,000 yards rushing his senior year and he was a league MVP and a yard away from a super bowl championship so since he is the closest to Cam is it okay to say they are one and the same?? I'll take an MVP and perennial pro bowler I guess.

[Raleighcat83]

Great, so find the most similar QB to Cam, in both passing stats AND rushing stats, and lets discuss. Not sure why you are unable to admit that no QB who ran as much as Cam did in college has ever been successful, but I will give you the latitude here simply so we can finally begin an honest discussion.

Except that the stats and history don't back this stance up. My stance is that QBs who run as much as Cam did in college don't develop passing skills nearly as well, which is what causes them to fail in the league.

Cam ran for 1,473 yards in his one year at Auburn. Can you name me the most successful QB who ran for even half of that on average in college?

Well, no, because most didn't have as many attempts. But Cam averaged 5.7 yards per attempt running and 10.2 yards per attempt throwing. Steve Young averaged 6.1 yards per attempt running and 9.1 passing his final college year, so Newton was LESS of a running QB than Steve Young, on a per play basis. So, again, when you say a QB like Cam Newton has never won a Super Bowl, what do you mean?

[KJDaniel31]

Your computer should have been wet a long time ago.

My scenario is no more ridiculous than yours. Judging results solely by what has happened in the past is a sure-fire way to insure long term mediocrity.

Except that it is. There are left handed and right handed pocket passers and running QBs. Right and left hand has no affect on their skills. We are discussing SKILLS. Can you discuss Cam's skills here, or do you really need to sink to this level to avoid admitting you are completely clueless?

You choose to focus on the fact that Cam can run and has done so with success. So what, so can your boy Locker. Yet you choose to focus on that aspect of his game and ignore the 66% completion rate or the 30 TDs.

Oh boy...you really need to make an effort to have some idea what you are talking about BEFORE posting.

Cam's averages in college:

20 Pass att/19 rush att

203 Pass YPG/105 Rush YPG

Locker's averages:

29 Pass Att/ 11 rush att

191 pass YPG/ 45 Rush YPG

Even counting Jake's freshman year, which severe skewed his stats, his % of pass to rush att (2.6 to 1) is no where near Cam's (1.05). Take away Locker's freshman year (where he ran for more than half his career total) and the stats are even more clear: Jake Locker threw the ball nearly 3 times for every time he ran, while Cam was just about 1 for 1.

How is this similar? Simply because Jake CAN run?

You just don't like Cam for whatever reason, and that's your right. Just don't try to convince us it is because of facts and logic, because you have showed us little of either.

I have shown NOTHING but facts...you have avoided every opportunity to do so. You have nothing but blind homerism to show for your support of Cam's chances for success. If I am wrong, I would love to see the precedent you have for someone with Cam's skills who succeeded in today's NFL.

[TheGreatestOfAllTimeCam]

We're arent winning more than 4 or 5 games. So it's not going to be judged in wins.

I think his numbers should be comparable to Sam Bradford last year... be in the ROY the year running. Be safe with the football. I won't complain if we see that this year.

[frash.exe]

My niece isn't here....its a dramatization.

Interesting to see the level you had to go to after that first post you made here. Keep up the good work, you really seem to be bringing something to the discussion!

nobody asked you what you think of his long term success. that was off-topic. the OP stated what did you need to see from cam to determine he's a success this year. Then you went on to create this false dilemma of running QBs vs pure pocket passers and how Newton will most likely be nothing but a running QB, qualifying it with your "i'm just a realist" label, and you have the audacity to challenge people to "prove me wrong and go back and look in history" when your premise is based in a bunch of half-truths.

Cam as a finished product can be anything at this point. He can be a running QB. He can also be a pocket passer who picks his scrambles to elude defenders and rushes when he doesn't see anything down field, and he might end up doing it to one degree of probability or another. I don't have the time or the care to go and do research to prove you wrong and go hop down this little rabbit trail you've created for yourself, and I pity the person who actually falls for it.

[Raleighcat83]

Oh boy...you really need to make an effort to have some idea what you are talking about BEFORE posting.

Cam's averages in college:

20 Pass att/19 rush att

203 Pass YPG/105 Rush YPG

Locker's averages:

29 Pass Att/ 11 rush att

191 pass YPG/ 45 Rush YPG

Um, isn't 203 yards in 20 attempts better than 191 yards in 29 attempts? Or am I missing something?

[Jangler]

Why the Bradford comparisons all the sudden? Bradford benefited from being in probably the worst divisions ever in the history of the NFL last year. Cam is the toughest division in the NFL, no way he comes close to Bradford's numbers. Be nice but it won't happen.

[teeray]

Except that it is. There are left handed and right handed pocket passers and running QBs. Right and left hand has no affect on their skills. We are discussing SKILLS. Can you discuss Cam's skills here, or do you really need to sink to this level to avoid admitting you are completely clueless?

Oh boy...you really need to make an effort to have some idea what you are talking about BEFORE posting.

Cam's averages in college:

20 Pass att/19 rush att

203 Pass YPG/105 Rush YPG

Locker's averages:

29 Pass Att/ 11 rush att

191 pass YPG/ 45 Rush YPG

Even counting Jake's freshman year, which severe skewed his stats, his % of pass to rush att (2.6 to 1) is no where near Cam's (1.05). Take away Locker's freshman year (where he ran for more than half his career total) and the stats are even more clear: Jake Locker threw the ball nearly 3 times for every time he ran, while Cam was just about 1 for 1.

How is this similar? Simply because Jake CAN run?

I have shown NOTHING but facts...you have avoided every opportunity to do so. You have nothing but blind homerism to show for your support of Cam's chances for success. If I am wrong, I would love to see the precedent you have for someone with Cam's skills who succeeded in today's NFL.

All that is well and good KJ although I think it means very, very little. What run/pass ratio do you think is needed to be a successful QB?? Is it quantifiable??

:confused:

[TheRealDeal]

He has a better offense around him, is a better pure passer, gas a better defense, a better offensive scheme, better everything...that more than offsets the division that is offensive heavy anyway

[KJDaniel31]

Every player is a different entity within itself. I am not simple minded enough to just say "player x has similar stats to player z therefore player x is player z"

I mean Steve McNair had @1,000 yards rushing his senior year and he was a league MVP and a yard away from a super bowl championship so since he is the closest to Cam is it okay to say they are one and the same?? I'll take an MVP and perennial pro bowler I guess.

He was a yard away from a tie, sending a SB into OT. Not sure why people think that play would have won it for them, but for the sake of argument, is this the guy you feel is most like Cam Newton? If so, I will go with that.

I can't seem to find the # of games McNair played in college, so I will simply assume he played 12 per season. The following stats are based on that:

1680 Pass Attempts/48 Games = 35 APG

375 Rush Attempts/48 Games = 7.8 APG

That's 4.48 - 1. No where near the % of even Jake Locker, much less near the 1-1 of Cam.

Even if you take his SR year (which you mentioned) you get 44 Pass/G vs 9.9 Rush/G, which is nearly identical to the previous 3 years.

This really isn't close.

[teeray]

He has a better offense around him, is a better pure passer, gas a better defense, a better offensive scheme, better everything...that more than offsets the division that is offensive heavy anyway

Since you are stating these as facts are you going on the record as saying in your QB expertise that Cam Newton is a better pure passer than Sam Bradford?? Big turnaround for you TRD. I don't even think that and I am a Hugger.

[teeray]

He was a yard away from a tie, sending a SB into OT. Not sure why people think that play would have won it for them, but for the sake of argument, is this the guy you feel is most like Cam Newton? If so, I will go with that.

I can't seem to find the # of games McNair played in college, so I will simply assume he played 12 per season. The following stats are based on that:

1680 Pass Attempts/48 Games = 35 APG

375 Rush Attempts/48 Games = 7.8 APG

That's 4.48 - 1. No where near the % of even Jake Locker, much less near the 1-1 of Cam.

Even if you take his SR year (which you mentioned) you get 44 Pass/G vs 9.9 Rush/G, which is nearly identical to the previous 3 years.

This really isn't close.

Wait so now you are going strictly on run/pass ratio?? What fugging difference does that make?

I love guys who get beat at their own game and then change the rules :rofl:

What ratio are you looking for??