What does Cam have to do

[KJDaniel31]

Honestly, I think Cam will kind of be this franchise's Donovan Mcnabb, in the aspect that no matter what he does while he is here, people have already predetermined that they don't like him, for whatever reason, and will spend his entire career trying to scrutinize him over every stupid little thing. It's sad that people will let their own pride keep them from pulling for a player on their team, but that is just the nature of some humans I suppose.

They would rather say "AHAHA I AM TEH RIGHT HE IS TEH SUK!" than "Cam Newton led us to a Super Bowl Championship!"

Some people's ego trumps everything, sadly.

I started pulling for him as soon as he held that Panthers jersey up. Some people started complaining. That's the difference between a real fan and a bandwagoneer.

Let me get this straight...the "real fan" supports ever move his team makes, while the "band wagoneer" criticizes moves for players whom he believes will hold his team back from success?

So all those Raiders fans who were PISSED when they took Jamarcus Russell, and were elated when they cut him, were "band waggoneers"?

Really?

[ncmonzta]

Again, you try to latch on to one thing and divorce it from all my other posts on the subject. It gets you some pie from those who don't read the whole discussion, but wouldn't you rather just tell the truth?

I do get nauseous when he takes the field. It is because of the following:

1. I dont like him nor respect him personally. I personally believe he is a con artist.

2. I dont like the way he plays the QB position. I do not believe it is a successful recipe for our team.

3. I am disgusted that we wasted a massive asset in the #1 pick, when great players were available. I would have loved Darius/Petersen/many others.

4. I am insulted that many Panthers fans blindly drink the koolaid and defend the selection by ignoring the obvious history.

Now, where have you seen me say anything to the effect of "I only dislike Cam Newton because of (X)"?

It appears this is simply ANOTHER example of you finding ONE quote/point, and attempting to make it someones COMPLETE argument. Why don't you just want to discuss someone's true stance rather than sink to these tactics?

That fact is you hate Newton and no matter what facts are put in front of you your mindset won't change. You might as well find another team and message board or you'll continue to be miserable while we cheer for our QB and team. Good luck with that now fug off

[Marguide]

Again, you try to latch on to one thing and divorce it from all my other posts on the subject. It gets you some pie from those who don't read the whole discussion, but wouldn't you rather just tell the truth?

I do get nauseous when he takes the field. It is because of the following:

1. I dont like him nor respect him personally. I personally believe he is a con artist.

2. I dont like the way he plays the QB position. I do not believe it is a successful recipe for our team.

3. I am disgusted that we wasted a massive asset in the #1 pick, when great players were available. I would have loved Darius/Petersen/many others.

4. I am insulted that many Panthers fans blindly drink the koolaid and defend the selection by ignoring the obvious history.

I can respect your position as stated above. I disagree thoroughly, but you are being honest, so more power to you.

Cam has earned the respect of many by what he has done since the draft, and how he has carried himself since joining the team. I also understand those that feel some of the things he has done in the past are predictors of what he might do in the future.

It just gets me going when I think someone is trying to throw around stats and facts when, in reality, nothing Cam could do in the short term would change their opinion.

We'll just have to wait and see what kind of person he turns out to be in the long run. Personally, I have more confidence in him as a person than I do in him as a pro QB, and I think he will be a terrific pro QB.

[KJDaniel31]

Well for the purposes of your argument I don't see why that matters. You implied that he was a run first QB based on his run/pass ratio. After all we aren't talking about completion percentage or passing tds, we are talking about run/pass ratio in terms of rather or not he is a run first QB.

I guess now it is time to backpedal again and change the rules one more time huh? :rofl:

It just shows how far you have to reach to defend your homerism. I'm sure it's much easier to throw in 7th grade, much like I know when I was in school I found it MUCH easier to throw against middle school teams as opposed to varsity teams.

If it was always that easy, my MS stats would have got me a D1 scholarship.

I honestly have no idea what his HS or JC stats are....why would they matter? I want to know what he does against real competition. What's next, refuse to admit that his Middle School stats meant anything, and go to pop warner? How far will we go to justify our stance, rather than simply admit that it makes no sense?

[ncmonzta]

So you haven't read any of this thread then, have you?

Cam rush attempts are almost equal his pass attempts. I can't think of a single starting NFL QB who ran MORE than he threw in college. I also can't think of a single starting NFL QB who ran nearly the same % as he threw.

So by your definition, he is a running QB. Or is the fact that he averaged 1 pass attempts more than rush attempts tip the scales for you?

You're fuging slow. How is a QB that passes more than they run a "running QB"? So if he throws just as good or better than other QBs but has the ability to run he's no good in your book,huh?:willy_nilly:

[teeray]

This is your stance....the only problem is that you really dont want to look for such a player because you know you will not find one. If so, why not just admit it (do 5 minutes of research to ensure you know what you are arguing?) and move on with your argument?

To clarify, even if a clear and available stat (such as rush attempts/pass attempts) shows that among the 120 or so NCAA starting QB's, ZERO with near a 1 to 1 have any success in the NFL you would ignore such a precedent?

You really think this means NOTHING?

I hate to sound like a broken record but I don't think you seem to understand my point.

If player x has similar college stats to player z it does not mean that player x is player z.

Each player is a separate and unique entity with unique skill sets

Therefore it is irrelevant.

The only player in recent college football history to even have the same type of stat line is The Golden Calf of Bristol. There simply isn't any other QB with close to a 1:1 ratio with the same gawdy passing numbers that Cam put up.

You are trying to make a precedent off of one other QB. That is a pretty thin sample.

So i guess my response is that at this point there is no precedent.

[teeray]

It just shows how far you have to reach to defend your homerism. I'm sure it's much easier to throw in 7th grade, much like I know when I was in school I found it MUCH easier to throw against middle school teams as opposed to varsity teams.

If it was always that easy, my MS stats would have got me a D1 scholarship.

I honestly have no idea what his HS or JC stats are....why would they matter? I want to know what he does against real competition. What's next, refuse to admit that his Middle School stats meant anything, and go to pop warner? How far will we go to justify our stance, rather than simply admit that it makes no sense?

So run/pass ratio only in the season's in which you wish to make available to us?? Got it. Neat argument :rofl:

[mav1234]

In Major College Football, or are we going to go all the way back to 7th grade to get stats that back us up?!

It shouldn't matter what division of football it's in. If a "running QB" is a type of quarterback skill set, he should always be one, right? But what if a "running QB" is a product of a system?

At Blinn, Cam had 108 carries and 336 attempts in 12 games.

Now, I'm not going to comment on what he did on those plays because honestly it doesn't matter for this discussion.

If a "running QB" is a type of skill set a quarterback has, how exactly did Cam change? Do you really think it was because of the competition he was playing against? Isn't it more likely it's a result of the play calling and the system he was playing in?

[ncmonzta]

It just shows how far you have to reach to defend your homerism. I'm sure it's much easier to throw in 7th grade, much like I know when I was in school I found it MUCH easier to throw against middle school teams as opposed to varsity teams.

If it was always that easy, my MS stats would have got me a D1 scholarship.

I honestly have no idea what his HS or JC stats are....why would they matter? I want to know what he does against real competition. What's next, refuse to admit that his Middle School stats meant anything, and go to pop warner? How far will we go to justify our stance, rather than simply admit that it makes no sense?

So you were a QB that couldn't get a scholarship to a D1 school? Its becoming more clear each post. How's this make you feel?

:cam::cam::cam::cam:

[KJDaniel31]

You're fuging slow. How is a QB that passes more than they run a "running QB"? So if he throws just as good or better than other QBs but has the ability to run he's no good in your book,huh?:willy_nilly:

This is impressive failure at simple reading comprehension. Let's try again. If you have kids, perhaps they can help.

Pat White is the ALL TIME leading rusher for QB's in the history of the NCAA. If he doesn't qualify as a "running QB", who does? His career run/pass ratio? (783 Pass to 684 Rush) 1.114 to 1. Cam Newton (292 to 285) is 1.02 to 1.

Tommie Frasier (option QB) ratio is 483-358 (1.34 to 1)

Cam ran a higher % of the time than the all time leading rusher for QBs, and the best option QB I remember watching.

What is a running QB in your opinion?

[teeray]

It just shows how far you have to reach to defend your homerism. I'm sure it's much easier to throw in 7th grade, much like I know when I was in school I found it MUCH easier to throw against middle school teams as opposed to varsity teams.

It isn't a testament to my homerism it is actually seems to be more of a recognition of how far you have backpedaled in this entire argument.

you have fallen all the way back to pass/run ratio and once it is pointed out that in JC it was much different than the play calling at Auburn and now suddenly you are like "Hey no fair!"

You might as well be Jim Carry in Liar Liar:

"Objection!"

"Why?"

"Because it is devastating to my case!"

[teeray]

It shouldn't matter what division of football it's in. If a "running QB" is a type of quarterback skill set, he should always be one, right? But what if a "running QB" is a product of a system?

At Blinn, Cam had 108 carries and 336 attempts in 12 games.

Now, I'm not going to comment on what he did on those plays because honestly it doesn't matter for this discussion.

If a "running QB" is a type of skill set a quarterback has, how exactly did Cam change? Do you really think it was because of the competition he was playing against? Isn't it more likely it's a result of the play calling and the system he was playing in?

[KJDaniel31]

It shouldn't matter what division of football it's in. If a "running QB" is a type of quarterback skill set, he should always be one, right? But what if a "running QB" is a product of a system?

At Blinn, Cam had 108 carries and 336 attempts in 12 games.

Now, I'm not going to comment on what he did on those plays because honestly it doesn't matter for this discussion.

If a "running QB" is a type of skill set a quarterback has, how exactly did Cam change? Do you really think it was because of the competition he was playing against? Isn't it more likely it's a result of the play calling and the system he was playing in?

To be direct, I dont believe it is simply a result of play calling. I have not watched a single JC game in my life, so I can't speak intelligently as to the style of play there. I don't think I am crazy for ignoring it here. If this stance of yours was the case, then there would be SOMEONE who played for a different OC or HC in his 4 years which would also show a difference in run/pass ratio. So far I have been unable to find anyone like that. Therefore, what sense does it make to sink to lower levels of football? At Auburn, Cam played with and against many future NFL players. How many did he play against in JC?

Again, in MS I had great passing stats....but I wasnt that good. When I started playing HS defenses...I tucked and ran with much more regularity. I dont think I played against a single future major D1 player either. How far will we go?

[ncmonzta]

This is impressive failure at simple reading comprehension. Let's try again. If you have kids, perhaps they can help.

Pat White is the ALL TIME leading rusher for QB's in the history of the NCAA. If he doesn't qualify as a "running QB", who does? His career run/pass ratio? (783 Pass to 684 Rush) 1.114 to 1. Cam Newton (292 to 285) is 1.02 to 1.

Tommie Frasier (option QB) ratio is 483-358 (1.34 to 1)

Cam ran a higher % of the time than the all time leading rusher for QBs, and the best option QB I remember watching.

What is a running QB in your opinion?

A running Qb is someone who can throw a little bit but rather run. A running Qb could not stand in the pocket and would not stand in the pocket and would run as soon as possible. Cam is not that. Coaches at Auburn made him run by designing plays or if a play broke down and he had a open lane he would make the smart choice to move the chains.