Football Outsiders updated Panthers statistics

[PantherProwler]

Posting the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

Sorry I misread your previous post. My apologies! :(

And yes. Points per field goal attempts is very important offensive statistic :rofl: Geebus.

How can I take you seriously when you list points per field goal attempt as an "important offensive stat"??

I am not trying to make anyone look good offense or defense. I just don't consider YPP an offensive efficiency stat. Much like the rest of the statistical world doesn't. And I value certain stats more than you do. It is as simple as that.

Neither does the fact that you Teeray keeps saying they are not and you keep owning yourself over and over. Or because you do this all day long::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Because we actually lost a football game because of this statistic. Because it's one of the most important stats for a football team?

Points per FG attempt measures how bad or good our other offensive leader in scoring is: our kicker, or more accurately the field goal unit itself. It measures your kicker's accuracy in FG, as well as penalties, so once again...efficiency. I think most people can figure out that's a pretty fuging important stat. When you have penalties that take you out of FG range during a kick, or when your kicker misses, it makes your PPFG efficiency suck and bad. And this happened frequently this year.

Only an idiot who doesn't understand stats laughs at points per field goal attempts. Carolina's leading point scorer is not Jake Delhomme. It's not Steve Smith. It's John Kasay. He's 8th in the NFL, career, in points scored in history. Most quarterbacks or receivers never even make this list. Which is why that's an important statistic.

So is red-zone scoring percentage for an offense: 21st in the league even though we are ranked 6th for attempts. It means we have had more tries than 26 other NFL teams to score touchdowns and have come away with less. Enough to make us rank 21st.

And because you continue to ignore the most important statistic in NFL football other than winning and losing, ypp, and you don't know things such as what I just said, that is why I nor anyone else should take you seriously.

So I think this is actually well deserved: :rofl::ciappa:

[teeray]

Neither does the fact that you Teeray keeps saying they are not and you keep owning yourself over and over. Or because you do this all day long::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Because we actually lost a football game because of this statistic? Because it's one of the most important stats for a football team?

Points per FG attempt measures how bad or good our other offensive leader in scoring is: our kicker. It measures your kicker's accuracy. I think most people can figure out that's a pretty fuging important stat.

Only an idiot who doesn't understand stats laughs at points per field goal attempts. Carolina's leading point scorer is not Jake Delhomme. It's not Steve Smith. It's John Kasay. He's 8th in the NFL, career, in points scored in history. Most quarterbacks or receivers never even make this list. Which is why that's an important statistic.

So is red-zone scoring percentage for an offense: 21st in the league even though we are ranked 6th for attempts. It means we have had more tries than 26 other NFL teams to score touchdowns and have come away with less. Enough to make us rank 21st.

And because you continue to ignore the most important statistic in NFL football other than winning and losing, ypp, and you don't know things such as what I just said, that is why I nor anyone else should take you seriously.

So I think this is actually well deserved: :rofl::ciappa:

It is a special teams stat and is a fancy way of saying field goal percentage. It isn't an "important offensive stat"

I didn't say it wasn't an important team stat. Just that it has nothing to do with our offense as you said it did.

And I don't ignore YPP. I use it every week. It just isn't an offensive efficiency measure. For example our YPP this year is @19 and our YPP last year was @21. Do you really think this year's offense that close last year's offense in futility??

And you are mixing up your red zone stats. We are 14th (not 21st) in red zone TDs per game. And we are 20th red zone TD percentage (also not 21st :lol:). :nonod:

So we are 6th in attempts per game and 14th in TDs per game in the redzone. Still is a sizable drop off but your mixing up your red zone stats. Unsurprisingly ;)

[panthers55]

That's not how it works buddy. Which part of total yards did you not understand?

total yards/total points = YPP.

scoring offense/ "total offense in yards" = total offense efficiency

Carolina:

399.7 yards per game(6th)

21.1 points per game(19th)

Scoring offense by itself already more important than total offensive yards. Anywhere but here. Points per game is more important than yards per game.

399.7/21.1 = 18.94

And that's exactly our ypp rounded to the nearest decimal = http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

18.9 yards per point.

25th.

You guys under the wrong impression that lots of yards without the matching points is a good thing. No, it's bad! It makes you a bad, bad offense. Those numbers need to match up else it means your offense is very inefficient and doing bad poo.

PS: For an offense to kick a FG it must have traveled at least ~50 yards, and need one hell of a kicker, or obtain a takeaway. 50/3 = 16.6ypp which would make you a below average team even if you had a kicker that could make 65 yard FG's. A touchdown+PAT = 100 yards/7 = 14.2 yards per point.

If you get the ball on the opponent's 20 yard line and move one yard and kick the field goal, the drive was 1 yard. If the opponent gets the ball on their twenty yard line and is held to a three and out (it could happen) and they punt it for 40 yards and we return it only 10 yards we are at midfield. Any drive over 20 yards results in points. A field goal from the 30 would give you a 20 yard drive and 3 points or a YPP of around 7. If you go in for touchdown it is 50 yards divided by 7 or a 7.1 which is about the same. I don't know where you got your faulty logic about 50 yards or 100 yards as the likely total yards on most drives.

You are under the impression that yards per point is an offensive stat and you are dead wrong. Yards per point measures offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency and special teams. They work together. Everyone knows that yards without points are worthless but you erroneous assume that it is a measure of offensive efficiency and it isn't. It is a measure of team efficiency which is just as affected by defense and special teams as it is offense. When our offense has a short field due to a great special teams play or defensive turnover and we score, our yards per point for that drive looks great. See example above. But it was due as much to the turnover as it is to the offense. In fact a defensive turnover at the opponent's 20 usually results in points even if the offense goes backwards 10 yards. Conversely if the offense gets the ball on their 5 yard line and drives it to the fifty and punts, it flips the field, and in football terms was a great drive even though it results in 0 points and shows up as a negative when calculated yards per point. Was the offense inefficient on that drive? Not at all. On the other hand a defensive pick six gives you 7 points and doesn't count a yard towards the YPP making the offense look better than it is. And if a team drives 70 yards and misses a field goal it looks like poor offensive efficiency and it was actually poor special teams that caused the issue.

Why is our offensive efficiency poor?? Because we have no defensive touchdowns at all, no special teams touchdowns, routinely have to drive 80 or more to score a TD, have missed several field goals after long drives, have turned the ball over through picks and fumbles and have struggled in the redzone. How many of those things are due to the offense? Only the last 2.

So stop trolling with the YPP unless you actually present the whole picture not just your negative version of the offense. Total yards is actually a pretty poor way of evaluating the offense and total points includes the defense and special teams as well as the offense.

YPP is fine as a gambling and handicapping stat or to gain a rough estimate of a predicted score. It even measures team scoring efficiency pretty well but as a purely offensive stat is is not very helpful. We all know it and wonder who you are trying to convince repeating things over and over. You seem to be the only one in the dark. And I am done here. If you can't see the logic I have so eloquently pointed out, you are either clueless or have such an agenda you can't stop and see logic staring you in the face. Teeray is right and no matter how much you argue, everyone of us who know football with the exception of all the PFFL alts agree. You are alone not because you are a beacon of reason, but lost in a fog of faulty logic.

[PantherProwler]

If you get the ball on the opponent's 20 yard line and move one yard and kick the field goal, the drive was 1 yard. If the opponent get held to a three and out (it could happen) and they punt it for 40 yards and we return it only 10 yards we are at midfield. Any drive over 20 yards results in points. A field goal from the 30 would give you 20 yards and 3 points or a YPP of around 7. If you go in for touchdown it is 50 yards divided by 7 or a 7.1 which is about the same. I don't know where you got your faulty logic about 50 yards or 100 yards as the likely total yards on that drive.

You are under the impression that yards per point is an offensive stat and you are dead wrong. Yards per point measures offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency and special teams. They work together. Everyone knows that yards without points are worthless but you erroneous assume that it is a measure of offensive efficiency and it isn't. It is a measure of team efficiency which is just as affected by defense and special teams as it is offense. When our offense has a short field due to a great special teams play or defensive turnover and we score, our yards per point for that drive looks great. See example above. But it was due as much to the turnover as it is to the offense. In fact a defensive turnover at the opponent's 20 usually results in points even if the offense goes backwards 10 yards. Conversely if the offense gets the ball on their 5 yard line and drives it to the fifty and punts, it flips the field, and in football terms was a great drive even though it results in 0 points and shows up as a negative when calculated yards per point. Was the offense inefficient on that drive? Not at all. On the other hand a defensive pick six gives you 7 points and doesn't count a yard towards the YPP making the offense look better than it is.

Why is our offensive efficiency poor?? Because we have no defensive touchdowns at all, no special teams touchdowns, routinely have to drive 80 or more to score a TD, have missed several field goals after long drives, have turned the ball over through picks and fumbles and have struggled in the redzone. How many of those things are due to the offense? Only the last 2.

So stop trolling with the YPP unless you actually present the whole picture not just your negative version of the offense. Total yards is actually a pretty poor way of evaluating the offense and total points includes the defense and special teams as well as the offense.

YPP is fine as a gambling and handicapping stat or to gain a rough estimate of a predicted score. It even measures team scoring efficiency pretty well but as a purely offensive stat is is not very helpful. We all know it and wonder who you are trying to convince repeating things over and over. You seem to be the only one in the dark.

YPP doesn't measure drives. That's why Teeray's stats suck and you and a few others have an issue grasping the word:total

YPP= TOTAL YARDS DIVIDED BY TOTAL POINTS.

You wrote all that for nothing. It's not just an offensive efficiency stat. It's the ultimate offensive efficiency stat. Bar none.

And stop trolling the defense. The reason why we are inefficient are all of those I just listed above:

Red zone-scoring attempts: 6th

Red zone touchdown scoring: 21st

Points per field goal attempts: 26th

Total offense(yards): 6th

Total offense(scoring): 19th

Sacks: 24th

Interceptions thrown:21st

Offensive penalties: top of the league

When you are 6th in yards but 19th in scoring, you are inefficient.

When you are 6th in red-zone scoring attempts, but 21st in actual touchdowns, and 26th in field goals, you are inefficient. You can't fuging score when you get into the red-zone

When you are 24th in sacks, 21st in interceptions and 21st in red zone touchdown percentage and lead the league in penalties it explains why you have so many yards that don't turn into points and you get taken out of field goal range.

I'm not under the "impression". It is and it is also listed as such on advanced statistics website: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-attempts-per-game

It's listed under scoring offense. It is by fuging definition scoring offense efficiency ratio.

All you proved is why you should use YPP for offense. And total defense for defense. I know this already. Turnovers hurt a teams deffensive YPP and offensive ypp. Takeaways help both. Defense can only help. Offense makes defense look bad. You have to figure out where each team stands at an even turnover margin. We are pretty close -0.4

And just because you have an idiot with poor logic that doesn't understand stats that pies all day long for not understanding stats it doesn't mean I'm trolling.

[teeray]

PS: For an offense to kick a FG it must have traveled at least ~50 yards, and need one hell of a kicker, or obtain a takeaway. 50/3 = 16.6ypp which would make you a below average team even if you had a kicker that could make 65 yard FG's. A touchdown+PAT = 100 yards/7 = 14.2 yards per point.

Dude. You don't even know how YPP is calculated :nonod:

That explains a lot.

[PantherProwler]

dude. You don't even know how ypp is calculated :nonod:

That explains a lot.

total yards divided by total points.

You keep making yourself look stupid dude. I've already showed you this:

399.7 yards per game Total yards per game.

21.1 points per game Points per game

399/21 = 18.94

You round down = 18.9

Carolina's scoring efficiency ratio or ypp = http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point 18.9!

That makes us the 25th ranked offense(without taking into consideration strength of schedule).

You tell me Teeray, how do you think ypp is calculated?:rofl:

[mav1234]

A touchdown+PAT = 100 yards/7 = 14.2 yards per point.

for the last time, this is not true.

examples:

Kick return for 90 yards. Offense goes 10 yards for a TD. YPP = 10 yards/7 points = 1.4 YPP.

Punt return for 20 yards. Offense marches 30 yards, kicks a FG. YPP = 30 yards/3 points = 10 YPP

Opponent downs a punt at the 1 yard line. Offense marches 99 yards, gets a TD. YPP = 14.14.

Kick return for 20 yards. Offense marches 80 yards, scores a TD. YPP=80/7=11.4

The only yards counted are those generated by the offense. Special teams has an influence ,defense has an influence, but only offensive yards are used in the calculation, which is why it alone is not a good metric to use for "offense scoring" or whatever. Special teams and defense dictate the potential maximum distance the offense can travel.

Evidence from games:

Panthers YPP from vs Titans: 93.0

Panthers points scored vs Titans: 3

Panthers yards gained ONLY ON OFFENSE: 279

279/3=93.

Yards Panthers gained on special teams: 34

Panthers total yards included that gained on special teams: 313

If YPP was calculated including special teams yards, we'd have had over a 100 YPP... BUT WE DIDN'T. It was 93!

So let's look at the season:

Panthers season YPP: 18.9

passing yards: 2605

rushing yards: 1150

Panthers total yards, sack adjusted: 3600

Panthers total points: 190

3600/190=18.94

[PantherProwler]

for the last time, this is not true.

examples:

Kick return for 90 yards. Offense goes 10 yards for a TD. YPP = 10 yards/7 points = 1.4 YPP.

Punt return for 20 yards. Offense marches 30 yards, kicks a FG. YPP = 30 yards/3 points = 10 YPP

Opponent downs a punt at the 1 yard line. Offense marches 99 yards, gets a TD. YPP = 14.14.

Kick return for 20 yards. Offense marches 80 yards, scores a TD. YPP=80/7=11.4

The only yards counted are those generated by the offense. Special teams has an influence ,defense has an influence, but only offensive yards are used in the calculation, which is why it alone is not a good metric to use for "offense scoring" or whatever. Special teams and defense dictate the potential maximum distance the offense can travel.

Evidence from games:

Panthers YPP from vs Titans: 93.0

Panthers points scored vs Titans: 3

Panthers yards gained ONLY ON OFFENSE: 279

279/3=93.

Yards Panthers gained on special teams: 34

Panthers total yards included that gained on special teams: 313

If YPP was calculated including special teams yards, we'd have had over a 100 YPP... BUT WE DIDN'T. It was 93!

So let's look at the season:

Panthers season YPP: 18.9

passing yards: 2605

rushing yards: 1150

Panthers total yards, sack adjusted: 3600

Panthers total points: 190

3600/190=18.94

I just said that above mav. I was the one that showed you this 2 days ago.

[chef17]

That's not how it works buddy. Which part of total yards did you not understand?

total yards/total points = YPP.

scoring offense/ "total offense in yards" = total offense efficiency

Carolina:

399.7 yards per game(6th)

21.1 points per game(19th)

Scoring offense by itself already more important than total offensive yards. Anywhere but here. Points per game is more important than yards per game.

399.7/21.1 = 18.94

And that's exactly our ypp rounded to the nearest decimal = http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

18.9 yards per point.

25th.

You guys under the wrong impression that lots of yards without the matching points is a good thing. No, it's bad! It makes you a bad, bad offense. Those numbers need to match up else it means your offense is very inefficient and doing bad poo.

PS: For an offense to kick a FG it must have traveled at least ~50 yards, and need one hell of a kicker, or obtain a takeaway. 50/3 = 16.6ypp which would make you a below average team even if you had a kicker that could make 65 yard FG's. A touchdown+PAT = 100 yards/7 = 14.2 yards per point.

I take it you don't understand a hypothetical situation. I'm done here.

[PantherProwler]

I take it you don't understand a hypothetical situation. I'm done here.

I take it you don't understand YPP and you don't want to learn.

[mav1234]

I just said that above mav. I was the one that showed you this 2 days ago.

you didn't show me anything dude.

I can't tell if you're serious or what...

You just said that a TD drive was 14.2 YPP.... which is virtually never the case unless somehow an offense gets the ball on the 0 yard line, and even then, I think they would count it as from the 1. That would only ever happen on a ball downed at the 0/1 yard line either through a turnover or a special teams play.

You consistently repeat this totally incorrect idea that it is "total yards" that goes into YPP, but it is not. It is only the yards gained on offense. Who influences how many yards the offense can potentially gain? Defense and special teams and previous offensive possessions through special teams. That is why YPP is an awful measurement of just the offense.

If you understand YPP... Let's say a team somehow only gains yards on one possession and only scores points on that possession. So for that game... How many YPP would the team have if their only scoring drive was a TD drive that started at the 25 yard line (kick return of 25 yards, but that doesn't matter) and went 75 yards for a TD be? To make it easy here in this hypothetical every single other drive they may have had they went 3 and out without gaining a single yard.

[chef17]

I take it you don't understand YPP and you don't want to learn.

I understand it perfectly I just don't agree with you that it is offense efficiency. You are the one who failed to understand in my hypothetical the 3 and 70 yards were total offense.

You can't take a stat that includes defense and special teams points and call it offense efficiency. That would be more like team efficiency.

[PantherProwler]

you didn't show me anything dude.

I can't tell if you're serious or what...

You just said that a TD drive was 14.2 YPP.... which is virtually never the case unless somehow an offense gets the ball on the 0 yard line, and even then, I think they would count it as from the 1. That would only ever happen on a ball downed at the 0/1 yard line either through a turnover or a special teams play.

You consistently repeat this totally incorrect idea that it is "total yards" that goes into YPP, but it is not. It is only the yards gained on offense. Who influences how many yards the offense can potentially gain? Defense and special teams and previous offensive possessions through special teams. That is why YPP is an awful measurement of just the offense.

If you understand YPP... Let's say a team somehow only gains yards on one possession and only scores points on that possession. So for that game... How many YPP would the team have if their only scoring drive was a TD drive that started at the 25 yard line (kick return of 25 yards, but that doesn't matter) and went 75 yards for a TD be? To make it easy here in this hypothetical every single other drive they may have had they went 3 and out without gaining a single yard.

Mav, is what you are trying to tell me that ypp is only a measurement of our actual offense? Because not only does that help prove my point, but it is wrong. But first I wanna clarify that you agree that it is in fact a measurement of our offense's efficiency.

Cause that is what you are saying there. Right? And I will address both of your points. I promise. But first I wanna make sure we are on the same page there.

Oh and btw....a punt return for a touchdown + PAT is always = 14.2 ypp.

And you are the only person I have heard referring to total yards as anything other than what everyone in the world refers to as total yards or "total offense". The NFL does not not include special teams yards, kick return yards, punt return yards in offensive total yards or "fake total offense". They don't include any of that. Which is why statistics that only take into consideration "offensive" yards are useless. So are the ones that only use "per drive". It doesn't account for starting field position or turnovers. If you don't like stats that don't account for special teams, why the hell are you encouraging Teeray with his per drive stats? Those don't say anything about special teams or turnovers.

That's why YPP is the best. Because it does account for those yards and includes points and turnovers and schedule. I promise you.

So for simplicity's sake...

Go to NFL.com: http://www.nfl.com/teams/carolinapan...stics?team=CAR

Total Offensive yards = 3600

400 yards per game

Total Points Scored = 192(it includes a safety)

21.4 points per game(with a safety from our defense)

21.1 Total Points scored by our "true total offense" per game(offense +special teams offense or punt/kick returner + FG/PAT unit scores +)

That is your true "total offense": offense + punt/kick returner + FG unit.

400/21.1 = yards per point. = 18.9 ypp

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

18.9 ypp.

This is your TRUE TOTAL OFFENSE SCORING EFFICIENCY. Carolina is 25th.

This is why YPP works. It is not calculated by drive(although it can be explained using drives but you all are going to complain that it's too long or too complicated for you to read if I explain it.)

It is calculated by using NFL.com's "total offense" / PPG. Scoring offense for the offense efficiency, scoring defense for defensive efficiency. Two different YPP numbers. one for the offense. one for the defense. You don't have to go through all that yourself though because it is right here separated in both: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-point

[j2thak169]

And after all this the most important stat is 2-7.....I don't care if we average a million YPP, all I care about is wins.