hurney's track record on draft day...

[rayzor]

Now this isn't about the level of success that he has had in making picks, though you could say that, especially in regards to the 1st round, we have done well. There is something that hasn't been discussed much and that is what he has been doing quite a bit of in drafts and that is trading.

This alone makes me excited about draft day....we may not have a 1st round pick yet, but something is going to happen.

In a sporting news series of articles they are talking about decision makers on draft day for teams and they have a beat reporter talking about what they do. Here's what it said about Hurney:

General manager Marty Hurney hasn't strayed far from his roots. After apprenticing in Washington and San Diego under trigger-happy Bobby Beathard, Hurney loves dealing draft picks. He's made nine draft-day trades since '02 and hasn't been afraid to swing for the fences. The Panthers used this year's first-rounder to move back up and get RT Jeff Otah last spring but picked up MLB Jon Beason and C Ryan Kalil by moving back in '07.

Because their first pick this year is 59th overall and they only have five total picks, there's a strong likelihood Hurney's football DNA will cause him to pick up the phone. Using the 2010 first-round pick as trade bait is not out of the question as Hurney often talks about trades being "part of the fun," of draft day. Coach John Fox has a strong say in who gets drafted, so more picks certainly would help restock the defense, which needs an infusion of talent regardless what happens with franchised DE Julius Peppers.

Panthers' Board: Round 2 (27); Round 3 (29); Round 4 (28); Round 5 (27); Round 6 (29).

-- Darin Gantt

A couple things...

1- It isn't a matter of if a trade of some kind happens on draft day, it is what is going to be the results of the trade(s). That we are going to trade shouldn't come as any surprise. What would be more surprising is if there is no trade that happens.

2- It mentioned that he learned from Bobby Beathard. Many will only remember what his last act as GM was, and that was trading up to select Ryan Leaf (who no one had any idea what kind of turd he would amount to). Just an idea of what he did and who this was who mentored Hurney:

Bobby Beathard is a former general manager in the National Football League. Over the course of his 38 years, his teams competed in seven Super Bowls (winning four times), beginning with the Kansas City Chiefs in 1966, Miami Dolphins in 1972 and 1973, Washington Redskins in 1982, 1983, and 1987, and the San Diego Chargers in 1994.

Beathard first joined pro football in 1963 as a part-time scout for the Kansas City Chiefs. He left the Chiefs briefly to scout for the American Football League and returned to Kansas City full-time after the AFL-NFL merger in 1966. He earned his first championship ring as a member of the 1966 Chiefs organization.

Beathard served as a scout for the Atlanta Falcons from 1968 through 1971. In 1972, Beathard was named director of player personnel for the Miami Dolphins. The Dolphins won the following two Super Bowls. In 1978, the Washington Redskins named Beathard general manager. During his tenure in Washington, Beathard and head coach Joe Gibbs led the Redskins to three Super Bowls and two championships. In addition, the 1991/1992 championship team for the Redskins was primarily composed of players that Beathard had brought to the Redskins. Prominent Beathard draft picks for the Redskins include Art Monk, Mark May, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charlie Brown, Darrell Green, Charles Mann, and Gary Clark.

Beathard retired as general manager of the San Diego Chargers in 2002 after 10 seasons with the club. In just his third season in San Diego, the organization won its first AFC Western Division championship in more than a decade and, after five years, appeared in its first Super Bowl.

linky

Most of the large amount of success that he had during his time as GM had to do with the wheeling and dealing he did on draft day and is somewhat legendary because of it and will most likely be placed in the Hall of Fame. He was a gambler by nature and, even though he lost a couple times, he won big on more than a couple occasions.

I know that just because you are someone's protege doesn't mean that you will have the same success. However, seeing how Hurney has been so active on draft day means that just because we have no first round pick at the moment that draft day will be boring at all. Will Hurney swing for the fences? Will he score something huge for us that will help win us a ring or will we get a Ryan Leaf? I'm not sure that this year is for the faint of heart. Lot's of things can happen and most likely what will happen will catch 99% of Panther fans by surprise. I do know that I'm expecting something huge to happen on day one.

[dexterpyro]

I would take a gm that is willing to make things happen over one that does nothing.

Hurney is a good gm...he will be great when we win a superbowl. He is the perfect gm right now for our franchise. Build through the draft...supplement by FA. All sucessful teams do it that way in any major sport.

Did he mishandle the Pep situation? I thinks so but I am not a GM. He is making Pep put up or shut up. Find a trade we like or play. Sit and ruin your career. It takes some nuts to do that with a player that is going to make 17 mil this year. I am sure they will find a way to sign all of our draft picks and any FAs we might need.

[dpanthersman]

i agree im expecting something to happen. which is the main reason im looking forward to this weekend. but whatever happens i hope its not trading next years first, personally i dont like the idea. but at the same time if nothing happens it wouldn't surprise me to much

[Jangler]

I want to have his children...

[rayzor]

I want to have his children...

that could be arranged.

[scratchy1]

Hurney has been solid in his first round picks. But when you look at his record in the second and third rounds, where we should still be getting starters more often than not.....not so much.

[Bones McCoy]

Hurney has been solid in his first round picks. But when you look at his record in the second and third rounds, where we should still be getting starters more often than not.....not so much.

That's kinda been my complaint as well

[mr beauxjangles]

Good post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. Regardless of any Peppers activity, I think we'll be looking to get additional second and third round picks this year. I would not be the surprised at all if next year's first was part of a deal.

[Squirrel]

Hurney has been solid in his first round picks. But when you look at his record in the second and third rounds, where we should still be getting starters more often than not.....not so much.

Thats due to more of the lead scout we had before. The one we have know is great.

[rayzor]

Hurney has been solid in his first round picks. But when you look at his record in the second and third rounds, where we should still be getting starters more often than not.....not so much.

??? first of all that wasn't what i was talking about. i was talking about his tendency to make big trades on draft day.

secondly....

all but 6 starters from last year were ones that we drafted.... (with the exception of jake) 100% of our starting offense was ones that we drafted.

10 of those starters that we drafted were 1st rounders. that means that we have 6 other starters drafted by us that were from rounds 2-7.....5 of those were drafted by us in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. how can that be bad?

[scratchy1]

??? first of all that wasn't what i was talking about. i was talking about his tendency to make big trades on draft day.

secondly....

all but 5 starters from last year were ones that we drafted....100% of our starting offense was ones that we drafted.

10 of those starters that we drafted were 1st rounders. that means that we have 6 other starters drafted by us that were from rounds 2-7.....5 of those were drafted by us in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. how can that be bad?

***************************************

I understand that your post was about trades on draft day. I was simply making a comment about Hurney's 2nd and 3rd round track record for the sake of discussion.

Since 2002, here are our second and third round picks:

2nd:

D. Foster

B. Nelson

K. Colbert

E. Shelton

R. Marshall

D. Jarrett

R. Kalil

3rd:

W. Witherspoon

M. Seidman

R. Manning

T. Wharton

E. Mathis

A. Ellison

J. Anderson

R. Butler

C. Johnson

C. Godfrey

D. Connor

Of those 17 picks, only six were ever true "starters": Foster, Colbert, Kalil, Witherspoon, Wharton and Godfrey. Of those, I would submit that Foster and Colbert were below-average for the position (and would not have started for most teams), Witherspoon above-average, and Wharton and Kalil above-average (but considering both are guards and/or center and they required a second and third round pick, there was a high cost relative to position). Jury's still out on Godfrey although I have high hopes.

The rest I would classify as follows:

Reasonable return on the pick: Manning, Marshall

Yet to be determined: Jarrett, Johnson, Connor

Low return: Seidman, Mathis, Anderson

Outright bust: Nelson, Shelton, Ellison (remember we traded UP for this guy), Butler

I just don't see how you could argue that Hurney's second and third round record is anything better than questionable.

[rayzor]

how many of our starters should be 2nd and 3rd round picks?

[mantal]

***************************************

I understand that your post was about trades on draft day. I was simply making a comment about Hurney's 2nd and 3rd round track record for the sake of discussion.

Since 2002, here are our second and third round picks:

2nd:

D. Foster

B. Nelson

K. Colbert

E. Shelton

R. Marshall

D. Jarrett

R. Kalil

3rd:

W. Witherspoon

M. Seidman

R. Manning

T. Wharton

E. Mathis

A. Ellison

J. Anderson

R. Butler

C. Johnson

C. Godfrey

D. Connor

Of those 17 picks, only six were ever true "starters": Foster, Colbert, Kalil, Witherspoon, Wharton and Godfrey. Of those, I would submit that Foster and Colbert were below-average for the position (and would not have started for most teams), Witherspoon above-average, and Wharton and Kalil above-average (but considering both are guards and/or center and they required a second and third round pick, there was a high cost relative to position). Jury's still out on Godfrey although I have high hopes.

The rest I would classify as follows:

Reasonable return on the pick: Manning, Marshall

Yet to be determined: Jarrett, Johnson, Connor

Low return: Seidman, Mathis, Anderson

Outright bust: Nelson, Shelton, Ellison (remember we traded UP for this guy), Butler

I just don't see how you could argue that Hurney's second and third round record is anything better than questionable.

Good research to support your position, did you do that to the other 31 teams? Because if you didn't, you're assuming that the other 31 teams are better while criticizing Hurney. I'd be willing to bet that similar results occur on the others as well. I mean there's a reason they are second and third round picks instead of first rounders after all...

Not being critical of you, just raising a point...

[rayzor]

22 starters

16 starters were drafted by us

-10 starters from the 1st round

-5 starters from round 2 and 3

only 6 were FA acquisitions. how is that not successful drafting in the first 3 rounds? we get what we need from the 1st round for the most part and the rest from the 2nd and 3rd. there are only so many starting spots. our draft picks from the first 3 rounds fills them up over 70%. that is successful drafting.