Game Of Thrones Grown Up Talk. Do Not Enter Unless You Have Finished All The Books

[Porn Shop Clerk]

also i was going to find some quotes to support my theory that bloodraven is "evil" and is turning bran to the side of winter/ice/the others

 

some people think he is eating jojen in a paste.   after doing a little looking around, i'm starting to think that perhaps bloodraven has been pulling strings in the background to cause terrible things to happen

 

such as leading bran to climb the tower and catch jaime and cersei

 

finding the direwolf pups

 

i read a theory that bloodraven is an albino with red eyes, just like ghost.  perhaps bloodraven has been using ghost to spy?  we know jon has some warg capabilities.  jon and bloodraven were both bastards.   one of the men stabbing jon snow said something to the effect of "I can't help myself"?  or something to that effect.

 

 

 

“Never fear the darkness, Bran.” The lord’s words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. “The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.”

 

also i think the undead outside of the cave are guarding it, not trying to attack it or get in.   unless you're "warded" you're dead.  why haven't any of the wildlings ever found this cave, or have any legends of bloodraven the tree guy?

 

 

 

A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment . . . but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

 

of course we know by now that melisandre is retarded, and usually wrong, the only solid piece of evidence that this theory is bullshit, but its pretty damning evidence.

 

i think bran will be able to control the others and issue them commands en masse

 

a few other inclinations are the stories he liked the most of old nan's (who may be some kind of bloodraven plant, who knows) were the ones about the evils, the ice spiders and the others and the long dark winters where they rode the streets and ruled

 

 

 

When Bran Stark is in a coma after his fall, a crow appears in his dreams and tells Bran it can teach him to fly. Bran realizes it has three eyes, with the third eye full of a terrible knowledge.

 

 

 

While bannermen arrive at Winterfell for the harvest feast, Bran dreams of a weirwood with deep red eyes and a twisted wooden mouth, with the three-eyed crow in its branches.^[4] Jojen Reed tells Bran that he dreamed of a winged wolf bound in chains, with a three-eyed crow chipping at its stone chains. Jojen reveals the crow has visited him in dreams since he was a child and that it can be found beyond the Wall.

 

 

nah he looks like a nice guy.   probably goes to church every sunday.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

also, why would the children of the forest want to help the people that walled them up and forced them to live in the frigid north with the others?   if they had a dog in this fight it would be the wildlings.

 

also bloodraven is the last greenseer

 

 

 

The First Men believed that the greenseers could see through the eyes of the weirwoods. That was why they cut down the trees whenever they warred upon the children. Supposedly the greenseers also had the power over the beasts of the wood and the birds in the trees. Even fish.”

 

why not the undead as well?   maybe there is no great other.   maybe he's just a straw man propped up by the children so they aren't found, pursued and wiped out completely.

[Bronn]

I'm torn, though... because you don't really know who to pull for...

In one hand, I'm with the CotF and Bran... and to some extent then, the White Walkers...

 

On the other hand, who doesn't like dragons? What if Jon is indeed the chosen member of the Red God's army? Who doesn't like Jon?

 

I see it as ultimately a battle between nature and mankind... Nature is represented by The Great Other... Mankind by R'hllor...

By the very nature of mankind, I suppose they deserve to be overtaken by long winters and monsters... but then again, there are good people out there who will be casualties of this war that was started by their ancestors...

 

I think Martin is setting us up to be invested in both sides and to want both sides to win, which will ultimately lead to something unexpected happening like some sort of middleground...

For all I know, TGO could very well be manipulating Dany as well, and will use R'hllor itself to melt down the wall and allow his army to pass... Maybe Bran and Dany join forces and kill everyone and start over? IDK at this point what the end game will be other than ice meeting fire and there being a lot of people that die.

[thatlookseasy]

Not gonna lie, the "Tree guy is turning Bran evil" theory makes a lot of sense when presented like that.  Why else would Coldhands be helping them? (Not to mention all the shady poo he was doing on their journey up there). 

 

But if you buy into the idea that Bran is eating Jojen's blood, then are the Cranogmen in on the plan to use Bran?  They started making the paste a while ago, and Meera was the one who always made it

[thatlookseasy]

Speaking of crazy conspiracy theories- this one might be my favorite so far
 

We know almost nothing about the past Boltons. Roose is the oldest Bolton we know, and we don't know how old Roose even is. I think the only reference I have seen made to other Boltons directly related to the current batch was an off hand remark Roose said about his "forebears" not being fools.

Thesis: There has only been one Bolton patriarch.

Support: Recall the Faceless Men and their methods for disguise. They use the cured skin of other people's faces, and magically fuse these masks to their faces with their own blood. They assume that person's identity, and no one's the wiser.

Bolton is an ancient house. They were bitter rivals to the Starks back when the Starks were Kings in the North. Back when magic was common place, and the Starks were wargs. How did House Bolton survive this feud, against an enemy with superior man power and magic? Recall that the Boltons were known to have worn the skins of their enemies as cloaks, even having a few Stark skins back at the Dreadfort. Well what if this was the Bolton ace in the hole? They have been flaying people since the beginning of written history. Is it such a stretch that they would know some magic art pertaining to human skin? I think this is the ultimate survival technique.

Ramsay is actually central to my next point. Why does Roose stomach Ramsay? By most counts, letting Ramsay continue to be Ramsay is political suicide. Roose's explanation is that Ramsay continues to kill all of Roose's sons, and Roose will not live long enough to see a boy to manhood, which would be devastating for his house. Which is strange. Roose seems to be in perfect health. Why does Roose think he won't live for another twenty years?

I have pondered this a fair amount. An explanation offered by the GNC and its supporters is that Roose doesn't think he will make it out of his current situation in the North. This doesn't strike me as very in line with Roose's character, nor does it make sense that Roose would feel better about letting his Bastard take his lands over a boy lord. If Roose thinks he's doomed, than I'm sure he thinks Ramsay is twice as doomed. No, this doesn't make much sense to me at all.

But what if there was another reason Roose was keeping Ramsay alive? Why did Roose spare Ramsay when he first found out that he had a bastard? Ramsay had his eyes. Roose is keeping Ramsay around, because Roose plans on stealing Ramsay's identity. Roose plans on stealing Ramsay's face.

Why? Because Roose is immortal. How he achieved this, I'm not sure. One theory that I like is that the Bolton line began when the Night's King and an Other had a half human child. That child grew to an adult, but then ceased to age. How could this strange creature continue its existence while living in the world of men? It must pretend. It must be cautious. It must look to live and die and give birth to heirs, like men do. And when it has lived fifty or sixty years, not long enough for it's unlined face and dark hair to draw too much attention, it flays a son with pale, pale eyes, and assumes his identity.

Roose Bolton’s own face was a pale grey mask, with two chips of dirty ice where his eyes should be. p.487 ADwD

Oh god it almost makes too much sense! Why does he leach his skin all the time? Hes simply helping maintain the blood flow to keep his new skin alive.

Which of course means the flayed man of house Bolton, is Roose himself

[Bronn]

Speaking of crazy conspiracy theories- this one might be my favorite so far

 

Oh god it almost makes too much sense! Why does he leach his skin all the time? Hes simply helping maintain the blood flow to keep his new skin alive.

Which of course means the flayed man of house Bolton, is Roose himself

 

Gotta admit... that one is a pretty epic one that I hadn't read up until you posted it...

Could totally be true...

[Porn Shop Clerk]

Not gonna lie, the "Tree guy is turning Bran evil" theory makes a lot of sense when presented like that.  Why else would Coldhands be helping them? (Not to mention all the shady poo he was doing on their journey up there). 

 

But if you buy into the idea that Bran is eating Jojen's blood, then are the Cranogmen in on the plan to use Bran?  They started making the paste a while ago, and Meera was the one who always made it

 

meera never made bran any weirwood paste.   she has disappeared along with jojen by the time it was presented to him.  to answer your other question, jojen has known all along how and when he would die, and has become increasingly detached and fatalistic since reaching the cave.   and now him and meera are both missing.

 

 

Leaf takes a weirwood bowl from Snowylocks’s hands. The bowl is carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wear. She hands it to Bran along with a wooden spoon. Something about the look of the paste makes Bran feel ill, it has red veins that he supposes are only weirwood sap, but in the torchlight they look remarkably like blood. ^[2]

Bran’s reaction to the weirwood paste taste is similar to that of Daenerys Targaryen upon drinking shade of the evening before entering the House of the Undying, the first taste is not good, and the last is delicious.

To Bran the paste tastes bitter, then better, then almost sweet. It tastes of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him.

When he is finished Leaf touches his hand and tells him that the trees will teach him, the trees remember.

 

it is suspected that bran may be eating meera as well.

 

a bit about the children:

 

Leaf:  

 

She was born in the time of the dragon and walked the world of men for 200 years to watch, listen and learn. Exactly where she went and what she did she did not mention. She might be walking still, but her legs were sore and her heart was weary, so she turned her feet for home.

She has a woman’s voice, high and sweet, with a strange music in it like none Bran has ever heard and a sadness that he thought might break his heart. Leaf has a name when she is needing one.

 

 

why is she so sad?

 

Ash:

 

 

 

Ash is one of the children of the forest with nut-brown skin that is dappled like a deer's with paler spots, and large ears and large eyes slitted like a cat's eyes. Ash has three fingers and a thumb with sharp black claws instead of nails.

 

could just be a red herring.   they could all be red herrings.   but i think if they were, they would be a little more obvious.

 

they all pretty much look like this.  one has snowy white hair (old nan?   she's been carted off by the boltons or something and considered dead.  goes along with bolton being immortal and friendly to the children)

 

 

 

 

"The children of the forest are all dead. The First Men killed half of them with bronze blades, and the Andals finished the job with iron.” ^{[9]   -Jeor Mormont}

 

”

 

 

 

 

 

The caves are timeless, vast, silent. They are home to more than three score living singers and the bones of thousands dead, and extend far below the hollow hill. The children of the forest live with whom they refer to as the Last Greenseer. In the caves there are passages that go deep, bottomless pits and sudden shafts, forgotten ways that lead to the very center of the earth. Leaf tells Bran Stark that even the children of the forest have not explored them all, even though they have lived there for a thousand thousand man-years. Bran realises that they are indeed singers, he hears them singing. They sing sad songs in the True Tongue so he cannot understand the words, but their voices are as pure as the winter air. ^[2]

 

 

Bran asks Leaf where the rest of the children are, she replies:

“ Gone down into the earth … Into the stones, into the trees. Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, theunicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundered. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us.^[2] ”

To Bran Leaf seemed sad as she told him, and that makes Bran sad as well.

It is only later that he reflects and thinks to himself, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sings sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

 

perhaps that's why they need a man (or woman) to lead their soldiers.   bran showing hints of anger and frustration with the way the children have been and are treated, and he obviously sympathized with them before he knew they even existed.   or perhaps bran always knew.

[Panthro]

Alleras (The Sphinx) = Sarella (Arellas backwards) Sand?

 

If so, what is she doing at the Citadel in Oldtown with Sam?

 

hmmmm...

 

As for the "song of ice and fire" I believe that if R+L=J, then the song of ice and fire is the story of Jon Snow... The product of an Ice and Fire relationship...

 

Why is there a faceless man in the citadel?

[Bronn]

The question the Jojen paste theory raises for me is, why would Jojen allow himself and his sister to be tools for TGO/3EC knowing it meant their own deaths? That's a pretty big sacrifice, unless there is some kind of magic involved.

 

Where the hell is Howland and why does he not care what his kids are up to?

 

I always put more merit in the theory that Jojen WAS Howland. Meera could even be Jon's twin sister via Lyanna? I think I read that theory somewhere too. But, I have to admit the Jojen paste theory is a new one for me too, and it does make a lot of sense on some levels.

[Bronn]

Why is there a faceless man in the citadel?

 

Good question... I think you're referring to The Alchemist?

I'd love to hear more about the intentions of The Many Faced God and The Drowned God.

It's pretty obvious that the Seven are irrelevant at this point.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

i have no idea what jaquen is doing at the citadel.   there's something there he wants very badly i think, or has been ordered to retrieve it

 

[Bronn]

i have no idea what jaquen is doing at the citadel.   there's something there he wants very badly i think, or has been ordered to retrieve it

 

Or someone he wants to kill because they are there to retrieve something.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

The question the Jojen paste theory raises for me is, why would Jojen allow himself and his sister to be tools for TGO/3EC knowing it meant their own deaths? That's a pretty big sacrifice, unless there is some kind of magic involved.

 

Where the hell is Howland and why does he not care what his kids are up to?

 

I always put more merit in the theory that Jojen WAS Howland. Meera could even be Jon's twin sister via Lyanna? I think I read that theory somewhere too. But, I have to admit the Jojen paste theory is a new one for me too, and it does make a lot of sense on some levels.

 

bloodraven has been talking to him for years.  its not hard to believe he could have been convinced that his death was part of a greater good.

 

  its not like they couldn't have snuck off.  maybe howland has no idea where they went.

 

yeah howland could be jojen.   the only person that has seen both of them is meera.   the idea of her being jon's sister is a really good one.  

 

and i think that bloodraven can force people's actions if he needs to.

 

 

 

Greenseers had the greensight and were wargs as well.^[1] The First Men believed that they were responsible for carving the faces into weirwood trees and stories describe the greenseers seeing through the faces of their weirwoods, influencing animal and plant life.^[2] As the tales go, they used their power to shatter the Arm of Dorne into the island chain of the Stepstones.^[3]

 

bloodraven may have even orchestrated jon snow's stabbing

[Porn Shop Clerk]

Or someone he wants to kill because they are there to retrieve something.

 

to kill samwell and assume his identity?

 

can they just change faces, or can they change mass that drastically too lol