Game Of Thrones Grown Up Talk. Do Not Enter Unless You Have Finished All The Books

[teeray]

The Horn of Winter, Ice Dragons, Jon Snow's Valyrian blood, The Wall collapsing, all that is going to play out in the far north.  The White Walkers are more than they seem, they are intelligent, have their own language, and may not be the bad guys after all.

 

If there is a grand northern conspiracy it is being orchestrated by the Bloodraven

 

[Bronn]

Interesting thoughts on the ice dragon and Snow.

I think the key piece that knows what is going on is Howland Reed. I read an interesting theory the other day that Reed is actually the High Sparrow/Septon.

 

On the Mel prophecy:

 

 

     “What do you see, my lady?” the boy asked, softly.

 

     Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow.

Whenever she was asked what she saw within her fires, Melisandre would answer, “Much and more,” but seeing was never as simple as those words suggested. It was an art, and like all arts it demanded mastery, discipline, study.

Pain. That too.

R’hllor spoke to his chosen ones through blessed fire, in a language of ash and cinder and twisting flame that only a god could truly grasp. Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and halfconcealed within the sacred flames.

 

      Yet now she could not even seem to find her king.

I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow.

“Devan,” she called, “a drink.” Her throat was raw and parched.

 

Skulls. Thousands of skulls. And Jon Snow.

This could very well be an interpretation that JS represents the polar opposite to Mel's cause and Lord's champion.

I've read theories that Mel knew this, and actually used the NW soldiers to kill Snow. They were crying and confused because they weren't the ones controlling their bodies.

This could mean he's in fact deader than Ned, or that Mel's actually made things worse for her cause by unleashing the power conduit that would be Jon's blood onto the wall. Remember how Dany woke her dragons? Blood magic and fire. Jon could wake his with magic and ice.

[teeray]

Read the GRRM children's book "The Ice Dragon". I am pretty sure that Adara is a White Walker. She is only comfortable in the cold. Her skin is light blue and cold to the touch, and she has very, very blue eyes. But she is only 7 years old and doesn't know she is a walker. She also rides an ice dragon to protect her village.

If I am right that Adara is a white walker it proves that white walkers have full consciousness and intelligence. I think Jon Snow becomes a White Walker

[Bronn]

I don't know about Jon becoming a WW. I just think that's a little too fantastic. I think he's just plain dead or he is indeed going to warg into Ghost until his body can be healed.

 

I definitely think that the WWs have their own intelligent civilization, though. I think the show showed that this past season.

 

[Porn Shop Clerk]

Ned wasn't King in the North, so being his heir means jack squat considering Bolton is the paramount house now.

 

As a realm if they're gonna rebel against Bolton they're better off doing it in support of a Manderly paramounty, considering White Harbor is far more important than Winterfell and also, still standing. At this point trying to install some completely landless Stark, no matter who, as the head of the North is just gonna set them back.

 

The GNC falls apart when you actually look at it through the lense of the feudalism Westeros is based on. Vassals give far less of a poo about what drop of blood or name their liege has than what's in it for them. What they get in return for the taxes they pay their liege.

 

If Jon breaks his NW vows and becomes the liege of the North, what does he offer his vassals in exchange for their taxes? Military protection with his dog? Food and trade?

 

its fiction so anything could happen, but i agree with you.   it won't.

[CarolinaCoolin]

Btw the way legitimizing Jon -still- doesn't make him Robb's heir. There are 2 other brothers ahead of him.

No robb putting Jon as his heir in his will makes him his heir.

Or did you miss that?

Sent from my iPhone using CarolinaHuddle

[davos]

The Horn of Winter, Ice Dragons, Jon Snow's Valyrian blood, The Wall collapsing, all that is going to play out in the far north.  The White Walkers are more than they seem, they are intelligent, have their own language, and may not be the bad guys after all.

 

If there is a grand northern conspiracy it is being orchestrated by the Bloodraven

 

 

 

Totally.  This is my fave theory at the moment.  

 

I think Bloodraven is orchestrating a whole ton of stuff and Brann could end up warg the ID or Jon flies it....or both.  

 

He's orchestrating a lot of things methinks.  His mother was a Blackwood, the only southern family that are descendants of the first men.  A Targ bastard also with the blood of the first men---the only other (assuming R+L=J is true) is Jon.    

 

Something fishy is going on.  And who's to say he's not working in the shadows with a few others around their globe. 

[davos]

I really like the idea that something lies under Winterfell whether it be Lightbringer or a dragon egg in Lyanna's crypt.    

 

Bran the Builder seemed to intermingle magic in the Wall and Storm's End.  His other creation of Winterfell could very well be too.  Maybe he was AA (Their stories are from the same period, it's like the global flood myths in our world) and before he built WF, he built it on top of where he won (where the winter fell, get it?), and hid Lightbringer under there (Where Jon constantly had dreams about visiting the crypts).  When Jon finds out his true parentage, he finds Lightbringer, Bran wargs into the Ice Dragon where they lead the fight against the wights.  Bran had the vision of the dragon over Winterfell.  

 

Also, I'm convinced atm Bloodraven is working through Mel and Quaithe and understands (since he can look into the past) the whole deal with Jon.  Mel doesn't know it and thinks she is receiving prophecies from her "god" but it's BR.  He can aid in awakening things under Winterfell that can help defeat the Wights.   He led Mel to lead Stannis to help at the Wall, she's then up there to be able to resurrect Jon.  He led Quaithe to lead Dany to "go east to go south" "east to go west" etc. (but that's a whole other can of worms)             

 

 

 

What if “Lightbringer” is in Winterfell? It’s already implied that maybe a dragon and I think it may be a wyrm like the Valyria’s ones. It would make sense because the underground pipes of Winterfell always bring hot water, in fact Catelyn’s rooms were the coldest. No one has ever asked what nourished the pipes? Wow…eventually the fire set by Ramsay seems to have “awakened” that creature. Some people suggested that Brandon the Builder and Azor Ahai fight togheter against the Others. But what if Azor Ahai and Bran the Builder are the same person??? We have learned about Azor Ahai only from Melisandre, who’s from Essos. In Essos the Red God is very popular but in Westeros there’s the Faith of Seven. I Westeros the hero who fought the Others during the Long Night is Bran the Builder. It’s possible that both are variants of the same story? Azor Ahai aka Brandon defeated the Others and built Winterfell and the Wall and maybe hid a wyrm and his magic sword in the basement of Winterfell…( and what if Lightbringer was actually a dragon????) the graves are a pretty disturbing places. Although, Jon.

 

http://leraluna.tumblr.com/post/41382631489/crackpot-theory-about-lightbringer-and-all-the-stuff

 

 

 

Author George R.R. Martin had stated that Bran the Builder might be a mythical character, noting he is as as far removed from the timeframe of the books as Noah or Gilgamesh is from ours in the real world.

 

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Brandon_Stark_(the_Builder)

[davos]

A helpful supporting theory:

 

 

In ACOK when Winterfell is being burned to the ground by Ramsay Bolton, Bran sees a dragon through Summer's eyes:

"The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone," (ACOK, 718).

 

It's been debated over the years. Was it Summer seeing the red comet and being confused? Was Bran hallucinating completely? Was Bran having a vision of his future as a dragon rider?

What's the likelihood of a dragon roaming around without anyone ever having seen it? Pretty unlikely I think. There being another dragon flying over Westeros when Dany's dragons had just been born diminishes the magic of hers I think. Unless the importance of her dragons being born is bigger than we realize.

I think that Dany's dragons' birth signals the return of magic to the world and that release of magic hatched other remaining dragon eggs too.

The dragon that Bran saw through Summer is Jon's dragon.

Before Rhaegar left for the Trident he gifted Jon a dragon egg as was customary for Targaryen children. (Or seemed customary at least.)

 

In The Mystery Knight, Egg talks about how he has a dragon egg and it was put into his cradle when he was born:

 

"Lord Butterwell will have the egg well guarded, I'm sure." Dunk scratched the midge bites on his neck. "Do you think he might display it at the feast? I'd like to get a look at one."

"I'd show you mine, ser, but it's at Summerhall."

"Yours? Your dragon's egg?" Dunk frowned down at the boy, wondering if this was some jape. "Where did it come from?"

"From a dragon, ser. They put it in my cradle," (Warriors, 668).

 

When Lyanna died at the Tower of Joy, she made Ned promise to protect Jon Targaryen. (Instead, Ned raises him as Jon Snow and hides the fact that he's a prince. That's why Ned was guilty about the promise all these years. He didn't do what Lyanna wanted. He did what he wanted to protect his nephew.)

 

Ned takes the dragon egg back to Winterfell with Jon because Lyanna made him promise to do it. The dragon egg would be how people would know he was a true Targaryen in addition to her bridal cloak hidden in the Winterfell crypts. Instead, Ned hides the dragon egg with the cloak down in the crypts. Ned likely planned to show them to Jon and tell him the truth one day. Sadly, he died before he was able to do that. We know he regretted something regarding Jon while he was in the Black Cells.

 

Jon dreams of the Winterfell crypts:

"Sometimes I dream about it," he said. "I'm walking down this long empty hall. My voice echoes all around, but no one answers, so I walk faster, opening doors, shouting names. I don't even know who I'm looking for. Most nights it's my father, but sometimes it's Robb instead, or my little sister Arya, or my uncle." The thought of Benjen Stark saddened him; his uncle was still missing.

[...]

"Do you ever find anyone in your dream?" Sam asked.

Jon shook his head. "No one. The castle is always empty." He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. "Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream." He stopped, frowning, embarassed. "That's when I always wake," (AGOT, 258-9).

 

Jon can't find the people he's looking for because it's been burned out. Ned and Robb have been murdered, Arya is in Braavos, and Benjen is north of the wall. There are bones in the stables because the horses were all killed during the sack of Winterfell. The ravens are gone because the Ironborn that Theon brought killed them all so that Maester Luwin couldn't send word to anyone. Even though Winterfell is filled with the Boltons now, somehow it's going to be emptied out again before Jon gets there.

 

Jon has to go into the crypts because that's where his mother's grave is. Her bridal cloak is there, proving she was married to Rhaegar. The dragon egg is there proving that he's a real Targaryen.

 

Or it would've just been an egg if Dany hadn't released magic. When Dany did that, Jon's egg hatched too. Buried in the crypts of Winterfell, Jon's dragon was released when Ramsay Bolton put the torch to it. Bran sees Jon's dragon through Summer's eyes flying overhead.

This explains the dragon that Bran saw, how Jon will get a dragon, how he'll prove to Dany he's a Targaryen, how he'll prove to the seven kingdoms he's a Targaryen, and how he'll save the realm from the Others.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/211wie/spoilers_all_the_dragon_that_flew_over_winterfell/

[Porn Shop Clerk]

also bloodraven is probably a homosexual

[davos]

Even if there is no actual "Ice Dragon", I think Snow will speak with Ned in some after death state in a continuation of his dream.  Ned tells him where he can find out who his mother is...in Lyanna's burial chamber in the crypts.  (Ned lives up to his promise and last words to Jon...well sort of haha)

 

So, he gets resurrected, still goes to Winterfell where he comes to Stannis' aid and finally defeats the Boltons.  He goes to the crypts where he discovers Lyanna's wedding cloak to Rhaegar, realizes they're his parents, notices more stairs, goes down further until he finds Lightbringer.  As he grabs it, Bran wargs into the dragon beneath busting out (which is a hidden egg Rhaegar+Lyanna had).  What he really was trying to do at the TOJ happens in the crypts.  Jon Stargaryen, Dragon Rider.  

 

After the battle, a message from the Wall arrives the Wights are imminent...he's like: Let's do this sh*t.     

[teeray]

I will be disappointed if there is no ice dragon

[PanthersFanNY]

also bloodraven is probably a homosexual

 

He was banging his half-sister, Shirea Seastar.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

so