Would be we better off without DeAngelo?

[TheRed]

I'm over the whole ordeal and tired of arguing about it.

If he stays this season fine. If he gets cut so be it, I wish him the best.

[Marguide]

D-Will was our best running back last year...

 

So I think if we cut him our cap situation would be better, but on Sundays we would be worse.

I agree with nearly everything you stated in your post. DWill has consistently been the better of our 2 backs.

That said, I would still part ways with him. Sign a solid RG or RT and perhaps beef up our secondary a bit, and the net impact would be greater imo. He's a very good, but not irreplaceable, player.

And then next year and beyond, we still have Stewart's contract to deal with. In some ways it is worse than DWill's, especially in the extent of back-loading Hurney used to fit him under the cap. We'll just have to trust Gettleman to make the right decisions when the time comes.

[dugbug]

Dlo is such a big class guy. Hell all the RBs are. Hate these threads. Hate this is an issue.

[CRA]

D-Will was our best running back last year. And even if you feel it important to omit certain games like New Orleans why shouldn't we also omit Stewart's yards against the Saints as well (11 carries 55 yards)?

If you do that his YPA goes to >3.5 yards per carry which would rank him right near the bottom of the league (fifth from the bottom of all RBs in the NFL).

But more to the point, it is interesting that some of the same posters that are up in arms over Shula and Rivera getting promoted and retaining their job respectively, because they feel like it means are basically forfeiting next season, are also so adamant about getting rid of one of our biggest playmakers when there is no free agents left that replace the value of D-Will next season.

I understand the implications to the cap and that might seal D-Will's fate, but I am not for getting rid of a playmaker just because we have too many playmakers that play the same position. Not unless you are going to replace him with someone equal to or better than him at another position. I don't see any WRs left in FA that would fit that bill.

So I think if we cut him our cap situation would be better, but on Sundays we would be worse.

If you exclude ALL Saints games from all players....Stewart was a better runner last year. Not better enough worth bragging about...but better none the less.

Stewart is now better....which shouldn't be a shock or a debate. Suppose to be that way.

[CRA]

Here are some more things to ponder:

D- Will got demoted and Stewart had 5 games as our featured back. In those 5 games

60 carries- 202 yards 40.4 yards per game 12 carries a game 3.36 YPC (would have ranked nearly last in the NFL in YPC.) highest game total 51 yards

After Stewart got hurt D-Will spent 5 games as featured back. In those 5 games:

82 carries- 445 yards 89 yards per game 16 carries per game 5.4 YPC (would have ranked near the top of NFL in YPC) Only one game with less than 56 yards.

Record with Stewart as featured back 1-4

Record with WIlliams as featured back 4-1

All of this was after the decision to go use more traditional running plays.

Edit to note: I didn't use the Eagles game because Stewart started the game as the feature back but got hurt and WIlliams ended the game with more carries.

Yeah, Williams played 15 games....and then the last game of the season almost increases his season ypc by a full yard. Imagine how distorted that would be over and even smaller window.

Against teams that didnt have the worst D in NFL history....a gimpy Stewart had a better ypc and more rushes of 20+ yards.

[frash.exe]

In all fairness if you want to take out the saints game you might as well take out the one he had negative yardage in against the bucs as long as we're deleting outliers, but I hope you guys realize in all of this banter about stats that it doesn't matter because the bottom line is that there is simply way too much money invested in this position and it's been one of the things that have been holding us back

[Panther4lyfe]

I don't think that we would be better without Deangelo. He's a better back then Stewart, even with age added in. When is the last time you seen Jonathan Stewart hit a home run touchdown? Last year Deangelo ran for the longest amount the Alanta Falcons allowed, who ranked top 10 in rushing yards (well at that time).

 

I think if Deangelo continues on what he ended at last year that he is a top 5 back. Didn't the guy set a all time record last year for rushing yards in a single game? Sure he's not a powerback, but the guy can run between and outside of the tackles, plus he hangs on to the ball (not saying Jonathan Stewart doesn't hang onto the ball).

 

Main point is we have a better chance of winning with Deangelo Williams on the team then off. If he could rework his deal some I think he will retire a Panther!

[CRA]

In all fairness if you want to take out the saints game you might as well take out the one he had negative yardage in against the bucs as long as we're deleting outliers, but I hope you guys realize in all of this banter about stats that it doesn't matter because the bottom line is that there is simply way too much money invested in this position and it's been one of the things that have been holding us back

Why would we take out that game...bc he sucked?

That wasn't even his worst game on the year.

[frash.exe]

No that is sensationalism not reality. Like when Haynsworth reportedly got 100 million but the reality was closer to.40 or Vick who will see less.than half of his contract. What is reality is what they get this year which is 11 million or in context around the same as Johnson.makes himself or Khalil for example. Not outrageous by any means if they are used.properly instead of what happened in the past.

Oh wow, just 40 million for a defensive tackle that proved to be utterly worthless

The point is, these contracts are made on such a grand scale that cutting it down to the guaranteed money isn't making it look much better. DeAngelo hasn't even earned the 21 million his contract is guaranteed to pay him, but people on here continue to sensationalize his contributions here like he's the keystone of this franchise when we have so many other players here that are taking pay cuts, constantly restructuring or being cut out of the picture altogether who've produced more or performed better.

[frash.exe]

Why would we take our that game...bc he sucked?

That wasn't even his worst game on the year.

Stats-wise, it was

[teeray]

Isn't part of being a good running back is exploiting weak run defenses?  Deangelo had the best game for a RB against the Saints all year.  So if we are cherry picking stats and only took stats from New Orleans games he outperformed the running backs of 14 other teams and ran about 60 yards above the New Orleans defensive run average against the rest of the league.

 

Again, I just don't see how people think Stewart is better.  If a guy averages 12 carries a game and only 40 yards per game for about a third of the season as the feature back and then he isn't being very productive.

 

 

 

 

 

[teeray]

Why would we take out that game...bc he sucked?

That wasn't even his worst game on the year.

 

Why take out the Saints game?  Because he was good?  Even outperforming all the other 14 running backs that played against the Saints last year.

[CRA]

Stats-wise, it was

He had 5 total yards

Against Seattle he had 6 total yards and a HUGE fumble that set up Seattle just at their redzone for there TD to win the game.

He also had only 4 total yards against Dallas

[CRA]

Why take out the Saints game? Because he was good? Even outperforming all the other 14 running backs that played against the Saints last year.

Bc they were the worst D in the history of the sport.....and he wasn't even an average RB in the 14 collective other games.

There simply isn't a debate how significantly it skews what he was....that is why

You dont determine how good someone is against that Saints D....you determine it the rest of the year