Jerry Angelo (former Bears GM) ranks the league's QBs, Cam comes in at #4

[Jangler]

speculation doesn't chage what the D did. Go back to 2012 and we don't make the playoffs with that D. what has changed? the D and the record.as the D goes so go the Panthers.

 

So you seriously believe if Cam had a consistent running game and a true #1WR, it would still be the defense that got this team to the SB? So why are we not playing Sunday?

[heel31ok]

Cam was the offense

 

When teams gameplan our offense its game planning how to stop Cam Newton

yeah I guess that is what Defenses do.

[Seal (SmittyIsOurSavior)]

1. Rodgers

2. Brady

3. Manning (Those receivers; that offensive line. Sorry.)

4. Brees

5. Wilson

6. Rivers

7. Romo

8. Newton

9. Foles

10. Luck

11. Stafford

12. Roethlisberger

 

Don't hate on my rankings. I still have Cam moving up. I still think Cam will be apart of the "Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers" of this up and coming class of QBs (Wilson, Cam, & some of Luck/Foles/Manuel/Bridgewater/Winston). I just put a lot on experience, and every one of those guys (including Russ and his 4 years of starting in BCS conferences) have more experience than Cam.

 

Cam didn't crack my top 10 at the beginning of this year, but a solid season by him and a meltdown by some others (Eli, Schaub, Ryan, Flacco, etc) hopped him up.

 

By next year, he's gotta leap at least Romo and maybe Rivers/Wilson, but then maybe someone new takes a bigger step forward.

 

So basically, I'm looking from an unbiased eye. Cam is not better than Brees, and we all know it. Cam is not the 4th best QB in the NFL.

[CelticCat]

4000 and 700 doesn't matter, he was 6-10 and 7-9 with those stats.His stats went down and we got better. we got better because of the D. The D was ranked 4th in league.The O was 24th overall ,11th rushing and 27th passing. 

do you know how many first downs you can get and still not score in the RZ? Alot!

 

The problem with using the 24th, 11th and 27th ranked grades is that they are based purely on yards and creates an inaccurate picture of how good or bad our O was.

 

You see, Shula ran a conservative offense to complement the D. If you looked a little deeper you'd discover that the Car offense had the second fewest drives of any other team in the league except San Diego. However, they ranked 11th in yards gained per drive, 10th in points per drive, 9th in TD's per drive, 8th in TDs in the redzone, 12th in 3 and outs, 7th in turnovers per drive, 3rd in fumbles per drive, 3rd in plays per drive, 2nd in TOP per drive and were ranked 5th overall in drive success rate.

 

So while many want to solely give credit to the D (and they were great) there is evidence that the O was also a factor in the D having the success THEY had on that side of the ball. A more expansive O would likely have produced more turnovers and put the D in more precarious situations. And while the O had a lower number of drives keep in mind that also meant that the D was also on the field for a lower number of drives and so were exploited less.

 

The average fan will look at Cams passing yards and see they aren't as high as they were his first two years and surmise the offense has regressed, it wasn't as exciting an O. However, Cam improved on his pass completion percentage, reduced his turnovers, passed for more TD's and improved immensely on his 3rd down passing. He also had more 4th quarter comeback wins last year than his 1st 2 seasons combined. We also happened to win 12 games and won the South.

 

[heel31ok]

So you seriously believe if Cam had a consistent running game and a true #1WR, it would still be the defense that got this team to the SB? So why are we not playing Sunday?

strawman.

[Jangler]

ah the old strawman defense...lol

 

 

you are the one making it about the defense and not Cam.

[Cpt slay a ho]

The stas point directly to the D.so why would I want to deny the facts? -The d went to 4 overall while the O did not improve so which changed and which stayed the same.if the D did not improve we may have gone 7-9 again.Now your point would be made if we had a better record before the D improved.Stat wise the O has gone backwards and the D has gone forward. So yes you cannot deny the stats.

 

one season doesn't prove the o has gone backwards...........with a new OC this is what you could expect

 

 

the d was ranked 10 last year and if we had that same d we still end the season with a winning record take cam away and were 5 win or 6 wins

 

we end last season with 7-9 due mostly to coaching not because of the d, we end this season 12-4 due mostly to coaching not the d

 

rivera doesn't change his style we don't make the play-offs good d or not

[heel31ok]

The problem with using the 11th and 27th ranked grades is that they are based purely on yards and creates an inaccurate picture of how good or bad our O was.

 

You see, Shula ran a conservative offensive to complement the D. If you looked a little deeper you'd discover that the Car offense had the second fewest drives of any other team in the league except San Diego. However, they ranked 11th in yards gained per drive, 10th in points per drive, 9th in TD's per drive, 8th in TDs in the redzone, 12th in 3 and outs, 7th in turnovers per drive, 3rd in fumbles per drive, 3rd in plays per drive, 2nd in TOP per drive and were ranked 5th overall in drive success rate.

 

So while many want to solely give credit to the D (and they were great) there is evidence that the O was also a factor in the D having the success THEY had on that side of the ball. A more expansive O would likely have produced more turnovers and put the D in more precarious situations. And while the O had a lower number of drives keep in mind that also meant the D was also on the field for lower number of drives and so were exploited less.

 

The average fan will look at Cams passing yards and see they aren't as high as they were his first two years and surmise the offense has regressed, its wasn't as exciting an O. However, Cam improved on his pass completion percentage, reduced his turnovers, passed for more TD's and improved immensely on his 3rd down passing. He also had more 4th quarter comeback wins last year than his 1st 2 seasons combined. We also happened to win 12 games and won the South.

 

He has improved. that doesn't change what the D did. Yards alone are not the basis of my argument that was just one stat. PT diferential was an even bigger factor in the teams success. stopping the opponent is a major issue as we saw in years past with multiple 4th qtr losses and blowing big leads.All things being equal that pts to the D obviously.

[heel31ok]

one season doesn't prove the o has gone backwards...........with a new OC this is what you could expect

 

 

the d was ranked 10 last year and if we had that same d we still end the season with a winning record take cam away and were 5 win or 6 wins

 

we end last season with 7-9 due mostly to coaching not because of the d, we end this season 12-4 due mostly to coaching not the d

 

rivera doesn't change his style we don't make the play-offs good d or not

you may be right but the trend I spoke of was not one season.

[heel31ok]

ah the old strawman defense...lol

 

 

you are the one making it about the defense and not Cam.

well then you be the one to make it about what I said not what I didn't say. The best way to stop a stawman offense is with a strawman Defense.Got any real ideas?

[PandaPancake]

Why you guys have to pick on Rivers? He's so entertaining.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[CelticCat]

 that doesn't change what the D did.

 

Not at all, just providing more stats that the O wasn't as bad as many seem to think.

 

The 24th ranking doesn't take into account to how we play the game. Cam could be throwing the ball around for 5000 yards a season like Stafford in Detroit, like he did his first two games in the NFL, it looks impressive throwing for all those yards and it would improve that 24th ranking a lot but it doesn't always lead to wins.

 

[heel31ok]

Not at all, just providing more stats that the O wasn't as bad as many seem to think.

 

The 24th ranking doesn't take into account to how we play the game. Cam could be throwing the ball around for 5000 yards a season like Stafford in Detroit, like he did his first two games in the NFL, it looks impressive throwing for all those yards and it would improve that 24th ranking a lot but it doesn't always lead to wins.

 

 i don't know how bad i think the Offense was. They were up and down and very frustrating at times and very exciting at other times.I am anxious to see what we do this off season to bring more consistency to that side of the ball.

[DaveThePanther2008]

The stats point directly to the D.so why would I want to deny the facts? -The d went to 4 overall while the O did not improve so which changed and which stayed the same.if the D did not improve we may have gone 7-9 again.Now your point would be made if we had a better record before the D improved.Stat wise the O has gone backwards and the D has gone forward. So yes you cannot deny the stats.

 

I have been listening (reading) to your argument about how great our defense was.  And it was an incredible defense.  Held teams to a small number of points, yards blah blah blah.   Great defense. 

 

Let's move the argument to the offense helping the defense.  We were in the top 5 in time of possession meaning.  Our defense is on the field less.  Less time for offenses to put points up.  Less time to accumulate your precious stats.  That ball control offense that chewed up clock was done by CAM NEWTON.  

 

Take away his 4th Quarter comebacks and we are 8-8.   Take away a couple of calls that went our way defensively you know the Pass Interference non calls against the Patriots and Saints. and the dropped pass to the Tight End in the SF first game.  We are 9-7.  

 

Your argument is our defense carried us.  Awesome defense but Cam and the offense was just as critical in our 12-4 record as our amazing defense.  

 

I think why so many feel you are trolling is because your steadfast belief that our defense and not Cam was the sole reason for our team going 12-4.   Give the defense their credit as it should be but give Cam his due to.   Without Cam and our ball control offense we don't go 12-4 and our defense isn't top 5.