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The fact you're having to rely on "rushing yards per game" (he is averaging 18, Bryce is averaging 10) here is really telling lmao. I already gave the clear advanced differences. Shough is playing worse than Bryce. You are literally gassing up a worse, 2-4 QB for a rival team and I find that incredibly funny.

Okay so I took a look at this across a WIDE variety of overall metrics and statistical groups that should give an idea about overall play and some potential aggravating factors associated with their play. Overall, I would say this indicates by the categories that I have detailed out that Tua and Geno are clearly the guys that are having worse seasons than Bryce. I would add that I am still of the opinion that they are better overall QB's given both capability and past performances. I will definitely concede there is not a solid statistical argument for them having a better year than Bryce, to date. Here is the data I gathered and I have shaded the cells according to "better than" or "worse than" Bryce. In a couple of the categories, this is an inverse because I am indicating these were less aggravating situations than Bryce has had and therefore less excusable reasoning for sucking. Let me know if there are any questions on the data/categories/etc.

Which is why you can't ignore the 1st 2 seasons because the Saints and 9ers looked exactly like Bryce in the 1st 2 seasons.

You must be watching different football than I am because when Im watching Bryce at QB, literally none of those things come to my mind.

Ask me in January.

Has Bryce? Again though, prior career results don't mean much when we're talking about right now. This season, Bryce can legitimately be called a clutch performer, a leader, a smooth operator, etc. Don't know that anyone would apply those descriptions to Murray at the moment...or even before for that matter. I'm not counting on Bryce to continue this run, but I can't really blame anyone else much if they do.

So let's forget the past 2 seasons. Which of the last 4 games are the true Bryce. The Rams and Falcons or the 9ers and Saints?

So I think I have unlocked your puzzle. Bryce has better talent around him than Shough. But you feel the need to argue against me.....so you are presenting that if the stars align just right on 12/14/2025 you might get to say on one particular day Shough has better talent around him....even though that isn't an accurate reflection of anything we have witnessed on the year w/ what the Panthers and Saints have supported their QB with. I think most football savvy people would take 2025 Rico/Hubbard over the present day variant of Kamara. Only thing in Rico's way of late is Canales via bad gameplans or fixation of putting Rico in his place for criticizing his play calling in public. Kamara is 30. Worst season of his career. Worst ypc of his career. 1 rush TDs. Zero 100 yard ush games. You being extremely generous for 1 Saints RB and very harsh on a duo of Panther RBs for this arguement.

He sound like a Panthers fan. Cautiously optimistic. Maybe he has turned a new leaf.

Yeah, you would hope so. I am not gonna count too many of those chickens yet. Too many questions about this front office overall. It's been so bad for so long that they are going to have to do a lot of good work to get complete faith back or even partial faith.

This is where the old "past results are no guarantee of future performance" disclaimer comes in. If Bryce does indeed manage to become a consistent good quarterback, nobody's gonna give a sh-t about his first two seasons. If he doesn't, nobody's gonna care about his stretch of good performances this season. I know what I'm expecting, but truth is both those options are equally possible.

If Brees third year wasn't fantastic, I don't really know what your measurement for fantastic is but it's very likely Bryce will never achieve that in his career.

Yes but his career winning percentages show that he almost exclusively chokes, especially when compared to Murray. Now, there is some nuance to all that, for certain but Bryce doesn't win often has been his entire career. It's not like Murray has been on a franchise that is known for stability either, for that matter.

Honestly just sounds like cautious optimism to me... (something which I'll happily embrace over the feelings we had late in some of our prior seasons )

And you just brought up what Bryce haters do, while ignoring his apologists love to throw three entire years out like it doesn’t count. When two and a half entire seasons you’ve thoroughly proven you are the 32nd of 32 starting QBs, a couple good games are the exception, not the rule. Even for this year, he’s had a couple good games and a whole lot of stinkers, which follows the rule he has set over his entire tenure.

I'd like to think this season's improvement could help us out some when free agency rolls around.

what's actually hilarious is this Phillip Rivers thing. It's either gonna be the coolest thing ever, or the most tragic. There is no in-between LOL

Would you rather compliment Sean Payton?

Boy, there's an epitaph...

Man. These incessant and insane Drew Brees comparisons are enough to turn an average calm person into Colonel Stinkmeaner from The Boondocks. Drew Brees actual 5th season of playing football he won a Super Bowl BTW. Again. It legitimately disgusts me that we have to basically compliment Drew Brees in order to bring rationality to this foolishness.

Maybe so, but stats don't...oh wait

How many people outside this board do you think would pick Chubba and banged up Rico ovwr Alvan Kamara? At this stage of the season, and operating in the real world rather than off of a spreadsheet, they outperformed us in direct competition and just beat the team leading the division. Is our OL banged up? Sure. So is theirs. Is anybody gonna make any allowances for that? Maybe say "You know what? You guys take some time to heal and we'll play when you're at full strength" Kinda doubt it. Where we rank over a season's worth of stats doesn'tnmean sh-t when the teams take the field.

Drew Brees’ third year wasn’t fantastic. In fact, his fifth year is statistically on par with Bryce 2025 season.

Well, until he got stabbed by a 69 year old man defending himself from being assaulted. Now he's the butt fumbler who was nearly killed by a 69 year old man while being a drunken asshole. Just when you think your legacy has hit rock bottom... LOL

As an aside, I think there's a pretty good argument to be made that "late career Cam" was a better on field version of him (minus the injury aspect). Perhaps the most accurate way to put it is that Norv Turner coached Cam was a better quarterback than Mike Shula coached Cam.