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Exactly. Which means data.... doesn't always tell the whole story! Congrats we are officially fully circle again. Love talking in circles with you. Data without context is pointless. You can also skew it to tell whatever story you want, like looking at just games a player starts, GWDs, PFF etc...

Regardless most lists are not removing data from games players missed part of whether they got hurt or came off the bench. I don't think people are removing the game Bryce came off the bench when they are looking at this totals last year. It's typically cumulative.

I think without manipulating the data, Gunner is the GOAT

That's a fairly big loss, especially for squaring up against our interior. First things first, we better freaking beat the Saints

it's not so much my case, as IMO you suggest I am uniquely doing something here for Shough...... but how I simply have always talked about QBs. Specifically, ones that haven't started all season. I have done that with basically everyone for years. I mean, I guess my point is, you can disagree with caring about starts and think backup player garbage time games is just as important of data and shouldn't be separated. I'm just saying I'm not uniquely doing it for Shough. That's what I always do. I have done it with all the Panthers QBs over the years that weren't starters the full season.

What do you think that means?

It's pretty simple as they are very close. When you look at season totals Bryce barely beats him in a few stats. When you look at starts he barely beats Bryce. Most of the major sites have their data listed by season totals but you are looking at starts as it helps your case. That's all. Regardless they are playing close with Bo Nix right there as well.

That's what I'm talking about

No, I'm saying it doesn't help the ACC and their rep having their largely lower to mid-tier teams getting their asses beat by ND on national TV. The only other major conference their current deal may have made sense for was the Big 12 and that commissioner has basically been the only guy in a position of relevance who had had the balls to basically tell ND to fug off so I don't see that happening. The ACC holds the upper hand here if they're just willing to play their cards instead of panicking and folding every time ND bluffs.

we got a guy for that

We gotta hit em hard in the nuts.

data manipulation!

of the last 6 games, how many would you say featured good NFL QB play? Jets, Green Bay, New Orleans, Falcons, 49ers, Rams. How is he playing well, if he was not good in 4 of the last 6? It's the recurring trend of letting the last game when it goes okay have drastically too much weight.

How the fug did he beat us......

really need a thread on the Saints D. Really feels like a large % of Panthers fans dismiss the last Saints game and just some fluke and we will just win this week. There QB and D didn't just play well vs us last time, past several weeks they seem to have really gotten on a good track vs earlier this year. It will be a tough game IMO, just as tough as the Bucs games will be.

from my perspective, I call looking at quarterbacks starts when talking about him....and someone calling that manipulating the data, a wild take though. Think it's the most accurate way to view what you get out of a QB when his team and the opposing team both have game planned w/ that QB in mind and you have the full game. All these random bits of games distort the statistics IMO. What does saying Shough is playing surprisingly well mean? Literally nothing outside of our next opponent has a rookie playing surprisingly well (and it's enough we can't dismiss that after a very surprising first game vs us). and it's not a favor done just for him. I've always taken out the random games form dudes when talking about them when the sample size is small. I mean, ask PJ Walker to come in a blowout or start a game and IMO you get 2 very different things out of PJ Walker. If you are playing against him next week, it's probably best to acknowledge the variant that starts vs inserted late.

i think this game will have a more balanced attack. yes, establish the run, but don't be afraid to spread them out early if they stack 8 in the box.

Wins losses aren't really on him. They are what 1-6, 1-7 in games he didn't play. Again looking at just stats without context is not always the best indicator. He did what was needed to beat the Bucs last week including a final drive to run out the clock, he picked us apart and he played well against Miami. The ATL game was pretty bad but overall he has played well these last 4/5 games. If you are wanting to look at wins they are 2-2 over their last 4 after a 1-8 start.

I do think we should look at a QB in this class. It is fairly loaded with good backup QB prospects. It would be nice to tote a developmental prospect around again for a bit. Well, one that isn't a three year starter....

ESPN has this qualifier. To qualify, a player must have at least 14 attempts per team's games played Statistics are updated nightly NFL.com does not and it has Gunner and Cam Akers with the best rating. Just another reason why pure stats are silly. Funny enough neither of them remove data from games players didn't start or finish. Weird right?

Shough is not playing well. In six games played he has seven turnovers, a 1:1 turnover/TD ratio, and a 2-4 record.

double post

For you it doesn't, for me it doesn't because we don't like (we hate) Notre Dame. But you are wildly underestimating how many Notre Dame fans are in this country, who would tune into to NBC every weekend to watch them play Northwestern, Purdue, Maryland, etc. And that's a huge reason for the Big 10 to consider it - money, eyeballs, and recruiting. Notre Dame would never pursue the SEC. Notre Dame doesn't want to run the risk of losing to the 8th thru 13th place SEC teams, like a Tennessee, LSU, Florida or Auburn which could absolutely happen to the Irish on any of those teams "good days". See Florida beating Texas this year.

I would. Give Shough another offseason and see if he can keep getting better as they build the roster. Honestly Rattler wasn't horrible and could develop into a nice backup as well.