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Unless the league decides to rollback the rule book 30 years, that player at QB isn't winning any Super Bowls. QB has to elevate those around him. QBs that are carried by the team are always exposed in the playoffs. Closest thing to an average QB that has won the SB recently is Jalen Hurts. But he's so unique with his legs and the unstoppable tush push that I don't think it's easy to compare him to anyone. Certainly not someone who is subbed out for QB sneaks.

You absolutely can have hope. You can’t convert people though; making advocacy posts are kind of … not reading the room. I had a small hope that he would be able to at least manage some games and that they could make it work in some kind of no fun to watch fashion. But honestly I had 100% determined he was not NFL starter material, and I had conviction. So to root for him to marginally succeed goes against the best interest of the Panthers long term, according to my beliefs. I wanted him gone the minute he got here if I am honest.It was up to him to prove otherwise. He has rarely shown me anything to think I was wrong on his ceiling. He did show me some courage last year, standing in the pocket and stepping into his throw in the face of pressure - but that has gone somewhere. He made some nice throws last year in places too, but they invested in him on the level of the Atlanta game should be his norm. Good luck seeing that again on Sunday. Still, he did it once, so technically it could happen again.

Damn that was a longer post than I intended, Maybe I should have started a new thread.

On that TD, he sure didn't get any help from Scott at FS! While we're pointing out Blue Chips...Horn has proven to be a lock-down, (dare I say)elite CB and DB is one of the best at DT. Which brings me to a topic that has unfortunately been much on my mind lately...2026. Our important (IMO) FAs are: Rico Dowdle - As you pointed out, Etienne is developing nicely and Brooks is still untested potential, so not a big loss. Cade Mays and Brady Christensen - I think we can keep both without breaking the bank. BC tested the market this year and it was all but non-existent. He's a solid backup, but backup linemen don't get paid. Mayes is our only starter on the line who's a FA and he's technically not a starter. Corbett is a FA, but good riddance as far as I'm concerned. He stays hurt and can't snap the damn ball when he is healthy. Hunter Renfrow signed a 1 -year prove it deal, and will resign a team friendly deal again I think. He has repeatedly said that he only wants to play here and is Coker's backup anyway. DJ Wonnum - Solid mid-tier guy that I would like back, but is easily replaceable. I will not cry if he walks. Every other FA is bottom of the barrel roster fillers. As it stands now, we need (in order); QB, ILB, OL/DL depth, secondary depth. If we resign Mays, OL is in tact again and still pretty darned good. Horne, Jackson, and Smith-Wade are solid starters as are T-mac and Coker. We have some promising young WRs in Tremayne and Horn. I see us trying to get a FA Chain mover and/or resign Renfrow. RB room looks really good. TE is a conundrum, Tremble will never be a great pass catcher and Sanders will never be a great blocker. Evans is starting to show signs of life, but not enough to tell yet. This could be another spot we try to upgrade via free agency, having a proven TE could really help our rookie QB.

Stay away from Twitter Panthers fans. It will make your head hurt right now.

Not trying to be argumentative here but comparing their second season, Bryce was actually signifcantly better. He won a higher percentage of games (50% compared to 37%) and he had 4 game winning drives while Baker didn't have any. Secondly, I'm not sure you can say Bryce has had a career so far. His first year was a waste given the coaching so I kind of measure him from when he was benched till now. Some will say I am cherry picking but I think its a fair giving the coaching that first year. And you may be right about Young, I just hope not as I really don't want to have to go through another QB.

His team? And pipe down when grown ups are talking. I would get to you but you don’t even have an argument. Just toddler like outrage.

That will not be the same Atlanta team Sunday.

I mean you refused to actually address anything I’ve said previously so I figured we should just jump to your real problem. You wanted CJ. And CJ doesn’t look good right now because the situation is different. Same reason Patty don’t look like the goat anymore.

The multiple posts above me pretty much said it all. Arizona did literally everything in their power to gift the game to Carolina, which is why Bryce padded some stats, and Bryce and the team STILL couldn't get it done. Dude is just not good enough to build on, full stop.

Bryce had three drives that mattered in that game. The first two which resulted in turnovers and made it a multi score deficit and the last drive which was as ugly and as incompetent as it could be. Everything in between was basic soft strategic concession by the Cardinals. They almost played too loose and flirted with concern, so they locked in one last time and made BY9 look like a bum despite multiple friendly whistles.

The secondary has been awesome through both games. And that's with a laughably bad pass rush

Yeah RG3 was derailed by injury. Young is being derailed by genetics.

I didn't forget about it, but in 2015 it felt like we had the QB question solved for like 10 more years man. It was over basically after that. It wasn't RG3 but it was disappointment and loss from injury on an even bigger scale.

Be careful, some Huddlers get upset whenever they see charts. If you need help figuring out who, don't worry. They'll reply.

Cool. Then back to being a dumpster fire. Great.

Those scenarios are so unbelievably far from each other that I had to think for a while who in the world you where talking about. I think you are forgetting that RGIII's career was basically over after year 1. I am not sure how you forgot this.

Snow...wtf...lmao. Killin me.

1 fun season > 0 fun seasons

I care nothing of the more or less bust. It's all the same.

Yeah, I don't anticipate many suitors for him when we attempt to unload him. He is far less valuable than Justin Fields and almost no one in the NFL was willing to jump on that grenade. Not surprisingly, he hasn't shown any reason to have done so, either.

If it was all coaching and development, teams would spend more than the salary cap on coaching and development. They wouldn't value picking QBs so high in the draft. The support system matters. Being on a good team is a lot different than being on a bad team. But it's a lot more about the player than the environment. If it wasn't, KC would feel comfortable grooming Mahomes replacement before they paid him.

Skins really pulled a good one taking Cousins in the RGIII draft.

I would call Baker's season significantly better because he didn't get benched and he actually produced significantly. He also won more games. Regardless of that season, the career arcs are wildly different. Hell, Baker's worst two seasons would almost match Bryce's "best" season, so far. Look, is it possible Young turns this around, sure. But I would make a very significant wager it will not. Not with the Panthers, nor the other couple of teams he likely plays for on his way out of the NFL(my personal prediction).

2) So you are saying it was the coaching that lead to both his failure and success? Hummmmm......