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Unless he has an incredible double digit type season he has effectively tanked his draft stock and shot himself in the foot

I can't speak to whatever underlying issues there may be with Shemar off the field so to speak. But in terms of the responsibility of the franchise. The Bengals had ample opportunity to study interview assess and identify the draft prospects they were interested in. They made the choice to draft Stewart. They should face a steep punishment for allowing this to play out the way it did because they got buyers remorse. The league should make an example out of them and deservedly so.

This might get really interesting. Evidently he's back at TAMU working out with the team and might just try to play college ball again this year. Wild. If he could win the ability to play college ball again after entering the draft it's gonna turn the draft upside down. Basically anyone who doesn't like their draft position or landing spot or whatever could basically just say screw that and go back to college again, cash another NIL check and try again next year.

Oh for sure. I think it was always an effort of poor roster building relying on unproven youngsters and an over the hill vet. But here we go again. It's the same story again this year. Hopefully it works out better this go round.

Of course. But they already do that. The billionaire owners hold cities ransom and force taxpayers to fund their stadiums. For me. I'd rather see a young rookie athlete who will be risking themselves every time they take the field receive a fair contract. At the end of the day these are low end contracts compared to some of the MLB level deals given out to other big name players. I'd certainly rather see that before seeing another billionaire owner receiving taxpayer funds while pocketing tens of billions in annual shared revenue and whose franchises only increase in value even if the teams in question are good or bad.

I really don't know how they should work this out. I can see all sides, and I really don't think there's a black and white here, the entire situation is too complex and all the teams are too intermingled. Regardless of how you think about these contracts, if the NFL does begin guaranteeing larger amounts of money then some type of way they're going to try and shake us--FANS--down for more money, and I ain't gonna pay it because they can't guarantee me good football.

The NFL eats giant bad contracts all the time. I looked and the 3rd starts at 6.7 at pick 67 and 6.1 at pick 96. With the way the NFL cap keeps going up and how they all work the cap it really shouldn't be an issue for any team that can get 1 year out of rookies. Maybe it would cut down on teams taking giant leaps on guys they shouldn't? This would have got Hurney fired in 3 years lol

Nothing wrong with starting to look for bodies early. It's a long injury filled season. I doubt we get through unscathed.

We're in alignment regarding Thielen not being a game changer/breaker for the Panthers. Getting the ball into hands of playmakers like TMac and XL is going to open up things more than it is getting it to Thielen underneath (or letting him go after 50/50 balls 20yds downfield in his mid-30s). However, in a room where the other guys are two second year guys and two rookies, having a reliable vet that they can learn from is just as important as it is for the QB to have as a reliable third option. I can see that being worth $8.5M (just 3%) of the $279.2M cap... especially when looking at what's left out there: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/position/wr However, the idea that the team is forcing production to Thielen and leading to losses isn't supported by the data. Targets, not receiving yards, are how you can tell if a player is being "force fed." In the two games mentioned, let's look at the other players available... vs. TB 10 targets - Adam Thielen 9 targets - David Moore 8 targets - Tommy Tremble, Xavier Legette 3 targets - Jonathon Brooks 1 target - Dan Chisena, Feleipe Franks, Stephen Sullivan vs. PHI 11 targets - Adam Thielen 8 targets - Xavier Legette 5 targets - Chuba Hubbard, David Moore 2 targets - Tommy Tremble 1 target - Ja'Tavion Sanders, Deven Thompkins There isn't exactly a bounty of other names to throw the ball to. In those games, AT was one of the top 2 WRs. Diontae had been gone by that point. So... yea. Agreed that Thielen isn't exactly carrying the team in his mid-30s, but it's undeniable that he was the most reliable target last season that still has quite a bit of value this season. Whether or not that value is reflected in a manner folks think on the contract is going to come down to personal taste. However, the idea that the team was forcing production to AT and that was the reason behind some losses couldn't be further from the truth.

I would also add that I think it's more than money. AT has looked absolutely miserable out there at times, and there was a lot of speculation he would demand to be traded. Personally, I thought he was a lock to be moved last year. Maybe his hamstring is the only thing that prevents that from happening. The fact that he's not only willing to come back and play, but excited about it, really bodes well for Bryce. AT is a veteran and he knows the game. If he didn't have confidence in Bryce, I guarantee you he wouldn't be in a Panther uniform this year. I'll take that as a positive.

Two wins bud. 2 wins. Accept it.

Some folks get a tingle in their plums over older veterans and call other folks dumb over it. I'm just glad we made the investment in WR. Tetairoa Xavier and Jalen are the future and I look forward to seeing them bring a resurgence to their respective position group. Simple and plain.

oh, 100%, it's not AT's fault. I just hate the scenario was basically.....well, a rookie didn't step up so we really have no option but to convince AT not to retire with even more money/cap. To me, we have been for some time the land of random parts being places together. Maybe Canales will stay around long enough that changes. I think it's going to hard for any coach under Tepper to survive to get a real cohesive vision to play out.

Thats a strange take as I dont recall anyone clamoring for Cam to have a vet mentor because he took the reins of the team in week 1 and held tight until his release. Cam had it figured out day one. But I guess Bryce needs his support blanket.

You're still blaming the one guy who was producing. It's not Thielen's fault that at 34 years old signed to be a #3 option he was forced into a feature role because no one else in the receiving corps stepped up. That's the massive piece here that some of y'all are just absolutely whiffing on. No one is acting like Theilen is a top tier WR at this point in his career. Y'all are trying to argue against something that no one is saying.

If the shoe was on the other foot and a divisional rival fanbase was trying to prop up someone like Adam Thielen the way some folks here are these same people would be viciously mocking them.

I wonder if this will cause the value of 2nd rd picks to go down? Teams may be more open to trading down.

Okay in our wins he had 0, 0, 6, 6, and 6 targets last year while producing about 40 yards in games he did play in. Those games also represented games he had the least amount yards on the field on the season and was slightly under his average targets per game. AT production and games people use to talk about how good he still is.....don't translate to wins. To me, we often just get stuck in games both in 23 and 24 of over targeting him and him getting too many non-threatening yards. Those are the AT fantasy football games. Like I said, to me it's just the fit of it all. He occupies space in our cap and basically team where we need real legit O coming from that spot.. To me, he just isn't that dude. Given where we are, I'd rather be building up younger guys with the reps. I think he gets too many is all. I get why they had to keep him. But he needs to be phased down on reps on the field. It's not just targets. It's offensive snaps. But yeah, when AT is dominating snaps and then gets up to the 7 or 8 or heaven for bid 10+ targets? That's just not the football I want to see. That's losing football IMO if AT occupies that role in the O.

Man you have dug in so hard on this I don't think you even know which way is up anymore. Knueppel is 19 years old. Nineteen. Bryce Young is going to be 24 years old in about a week and getting set to begin his 3rd season as a pro. Adam Thielen is going to be 35 yesrs old in August. Do I really need to stop and hold your hand and explain to you the striking difference between the players you're trying to draw situational parallels to because you're in your feelings about fans having expectations for Bryce Young? Get a grip bud......

You said that we forced production to Thielen. Why are you looking at receiving yards to confirm that rather than targets?

Dunking (HA!) aside, the team looks like they're going to be a lot of fun watching develop and challenge next season. I was really only excited about Kalkbrenner, but seeing KJ light it up, McNeeley surprise, Kon respond, and Tidjane's ascension... shoot... it was an easy choice to snag eight tickets for the preseason game vs. OKC down here in Charleston in October.

When AT has more targets than Mike fuging Evans and barely cracks 1k yards and we win 2 games and finish with the worst passing O in the league I think it's safe to say if the goal is increasing the win output the ball needs to be in someone else's hands. AT being the focal point in any capacity is not going to win games. That's simple reality.

Nothing is ever that simplistic. But he doesn't really get open. He can do anything with the ball in this hands really. He is a small TE at this stage and we tend to often make him too be of a focal point on Sunday which I have argued always makes life too easy on defenses and keep the ceiling of the O very low. Which is why "great" O play for us (our curve) only generates about 200 yards of O. I'd love AT if I was the Eagles or something. Where I trot him out randomly on a 3rd down and getting very limited work. Ricky Prohel.

I hope AT has a good year, and then hangs them up I also hope XL develops some hands

"Why is Kon so different from any draft pick we've trotted out over the years? You act like he's your brother in law. These are just conversations. It's not like any of us has any say. You're entitled to your opinion same as anyone else is entitled to theirs."