SmokinwithWilly

Their offense is good. It's the opening of fantasy football as well. High octane, high scoring offenses draw viewers. Made total sense to have this as a season opener.

If they're asking for well beyond their production, absolutely. Like I said, this isn't about Burns getting paid. He deserves to get paid as a high level pass rush specialist. He is not a complete defensive player at this point in his career. That's not talking bad about him or calling him a crap player. He's very good against the pass and below average against the run. In 4 years he's never taken over a game defensively. Elite players do that. Paying him a Bosa size contract is stupid because he's not a Bosa caliber player. Like I said, I'm not pissed at Burns. I'm pissed at Fitts for how badly he's handled this. Every bit of this was predictable. If we're going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't do this half ass pretend we're a QB away from being a contender BS.

At this point we are in a rebuild mode. New QB, unproven WRs, a lot of new young players on offense and defense. Also, with those extra picks we may not have had to trade DJ. With the 2nd this year there were a couple of good DE prospects we could have grabbed. Yeah we would have missed Burns, but we would actually be able to build around our rookie QB. You also need to remember that BY isn't a sure thing either. You're acting like he's a guaranteed HoF and he hasn't taken a single game snap yet. We need to sign Burns but we don't need to break the bank to do it. We still need to re sign Chinn, Brown, Luvu. There's only so much to go around. I'm good with Burns at 26-28 with 80 guaranteed. He's not Bosa and doesn't deserve that level of a contract. Fitts fuged all this up with how he handled the trade offer and the pressers following. I don't blame Burns for wanting to get his. But if we're going to build a perennial winner we can't have 4-5 elite salaried players and a whole bunch of JAGs because that's all we can afford.

Pretty soon they're just going to offer 20% of the team instead of these contracts.

Have to remember to that so many of these contracts are spread out over years because of the salary caps and bonuses and how they are applied. Most are never meant to be 4 to 5 years in length. The only real number for most of these is the guaranteed money.

Because for the money he's asking, he should be more than just a pass rush specialist. He's Hassan Reddick at a much higher price.

Just letting you know you misspoke on your vid.

38 sacks in the past 4 seasons ranks 9th in the past 3 seasons. Might want to fix that.

31 teams kill to have Burns. Yes. 31 teams pay him 30m a year, for a below average run defender, hoping he'll take over a game defensively, and maybe 15 sacks. Nope

At some point these contracts are going to end just like the ones did for rookies. It's not feasible to pay less than 20% of your players 80+% of your salary cap and expect to be a perennial playoff contender.

Those would be Absinthe Boone's Farm Crown Royal And 151.

A team trying to trade sets the value. The Panthers value Burns more than 2 1sts and a 2nd. That's an all pro/DPOY type value at a high value position.That's elite level pay grade. That's the value the Panthers set when they refused the offer. If a team had only offered a 3rd and 5th for Burns, that offer doesn't really show a huge desire to acquire that player. Burns wouldn't be able to legitimately demand a Bosa type contract and not get laughed out of the room if that had been the offer the Panthers turned down. Every year players demand contracts for what they think they're worth and every year we see players sign for less than their own perceived value or are out of the league completely. Look no further than Nuke, Jacobs and Dalvin Cook this year. All signed for less than what they were asking for because the league dictated they weren't worth what they thought.

When the mortgage payment is due and you're moving in a couple days, things change. Situation dictates what you will and won't accept. My last 3 properties were all acquired for 20% under asking price because the seller needed the money immediately to put elsewhere. His need was an opportunity for me to my advantage. Burns is going to get paid. This is simple supply and demand. The season starts in a couple of days. The Panthers have to have Burns to have any chance at winning games. That's a powerful bargaining chip and his agent knows it.

A buyer looked on your Facebook page and saw that you had posted that you're relocating and need to sell so you can buy a new house in the next month. They lowball because you need to free up the cash to make a down payment, offers aren't coming in, and you can't carry 2 mortgages. That's leverage.

He may have been willing to but now he knows he doesn't have to. The Rams offer established value. Typically when you enter a negotiation you have a bottom line you're willing to accept. If you know the other side has a bottom line higher than yours, you move yours. You don't have to settle for less because you know they will pay more. There's a lot less pressure when you know their numbers.

Because he knows we value him as a Bosa level player which means he doesn't have to sign for less because he knows that we're willing to pay more. You can't say you're only willing to pay 25 when your actions say you'll pay more.

Not that he would have asked for less but he knows exactly how much we value his skills. That's a valuable piece of information.

My opinion is based on experience negotiating contacts. You always keep your cards close to the chest and never look eager. When you can smell desperation the only real question is how much is it going to end up costing them. We're desperate, Burns' agent knows it, we've established his value at 3 1sts, that's Bosa level money. We lost the negotiations before we even sat down.

The Panthers were offered a 2nd and 2 1sts for Burns. You don't make that offer for any less than what you feel is an elite level player. By turning it down, Fitts showed he values Burns higher than that. That's Bosa trade value and he wants to set the bar for edge rushers. You can't come in and offer less when you've already showed you value him more than that. That's why they're over a barrel.

Serious question though, if Evero's defense balls out this year, is it not realistic to expect him to be in the running for a HC position? Then it's a new DC and a new defensive scheme. Things can change in a hurry.

I understand he's gonna get paid, but the situation itself was foreseeable. It's a massive fuggup by Fitts. Burns and his agent see him as a Bosa level player. Burns is not that level of player based on his production. He's never been an all-pro much less a DPOY. He's more in line with a Maxx Crosby than a Bosa or TJ Watt. Hurney gave contracts based on potential and less on production and we've all seen how terribly so many of those turned out. At the time of the trade offer, several people on this board recognized that if we didn't take the trade we were going to have to pay Burns massively and we were going to lose any leverage based on the offer that was made. The closest trade offer to what the Rams offered was Khalil Mack a couple of years ago when he was in his prime and feared as a defender across the NFL. Burns has never been that level of player yet. We knew he was going to want a Bosa level contract when he's never had Bosa level production. Part of Fitts job is to be able to recognize this and he hasn't done a good job in this case. I've been a Fitts supporter but I'm really starting to think he's in over his head. A couple panic trade ups in the 3rd back to back years and now this contract situation just doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling moving forward.

I get what you're saying. But that also means that the Lions should sign Goff to the highest NFL QB deal ever because that's just the way it is for premium positions. You have to take into account the actual skill level of the player. Goff isn't a Hurts, Lamar, Mahomes type level of QB just as Burns isn't the same level of player as Watts or Bosa. Fitts fugged up by not taking the trade and then thinking he could get Burns at a reasonable contract. You have to know the value of the player based on what he was doing at that time. Burns is a very good edge rusher that's a liability in the run game. You have to know that at the time of the trade or you're going to have to be prepared to pay him as a premium all pro edge rusher. Fitts fugged up. Now we have to pay the man. This has all the feels of another Hurney deal though, betting on the potential and not the actual production.

Franchise QBs are harder to find than a very good pass rusher that is a liability against the run.

This is the Huddle after all

It is. We're going to massively overpay. I just hope we don't hamstring ourselves for future negotiations.