Khyber53

Geez, what do we say?

Pretty much spot on.

Yep. And behind Cam. And at the time, that was the way to have them ranked.

Really?

And CMC being back, too.

It's like Rhule and Co. are a bunch of guys that watched a couple of house flipping shows on DIY Network and said, "Look, this can't be hard, let's do it!". Now they're stuck in a collapsing house with leaky plumbing, the wallpaper peeling off the walls, shingles put on the roof upside down and mismatched windows. They just keep running up a materials bill and failing to pass inspections. It's time to pack it in and call in some professionals.

With what I've seen, I'm not sure we don't stay at 22 wins total by the end of this season.

What do we have to lose by keeping him out there and letting him learn the job? Might as well and see if we can solve that problem this season rather than rolling into next season with a big, glaring problem.

Undisciplined teams playing second and third stringers do that. A lot of false starts, delays of game and holding calls there. The offensive line probably generates the lion's share.

It's all Venus reflecting off of swamp gas from some valuable undeveloped land in Florida.

Can't win in December if you can't stop a running game.

Just look at the size of the offensive lines and the running backs of the teams we are up against. I'm looking at that schedule and saying we beat the Falcons, the #28 rushing offense. The Saints sit at #25 but they are better than that. Miami is at #22 and that could be problematic. The WTFs vaulted to #20 based on their performance against us. If we can't stop the run, it won't matter if we have Cam in at QB and CMC as RB. Those guys will just stay on the bench while the other team walks up and down the field, eating the clock and putting up 24-28 points. We've been found out and exposed. And we don't have the offensive line to post much more than 21 points, much less a receiving corps. DJ Moore is our only reliable receiver not wearing the number 22.

Do we really think Rhule and Co. have any chance in hell of fixing this with the draft this year? Or another off season of free agency?

You said it. Mike Tomlin would still be my #1 choice.

Well, yeah!

Oh I think Rhule has galvanized the fanbase, just not in the intended way.

If you were in a barfight, would Rhule be the guy you'd want watching your back? Out of the 32 head coaches in the NFL, is he the one you'd want to go to war with? Does he even make the top 20? 30?

When we got rid of Cam before, he was broken, our team was broken and we'd just hired a new head coach who has no idea of assessing pro level players. Cam healed up, went to the mountain and studied with a guru. Our coach got in deeper water than he could handle. He called Cam. Cam came back and healed the fanbase. It's going to take a new coach and GM to fix the team, though. We have good parts, but they aren't assembled well or directed properly. Hire experienced conultants. New coach, new GM. Keep Cam for two more years, get his input on his successor and have him train him up. Build the team based on that.

This game had more people returning to play in Charlotte than a Carowinds back-up band reunion.

Just another super rich guy who knows better how to do this football thing better than the other super rich guys who already own teams. They all kinda go down that road at some point with the college coaches thing. And it rarely has worked out. It's an entirely different game at the pro level and you are dealing with an entirely different group of players.

The only adjustment to DJax was to his salary next year.

Back when everyone was chanting for us to fire Rivera two years ago, I warned that the answer we get may be worse than the coach we were losing. I wasn't saying we should keep Rivera then (although I had been lobbying for him to stay for a while before it just became obvious that it had all worn down and fallen apart). I was trying to say we could easily get a new coach who just couldn't do the job. Yesterday, it was proven that we had gotten a coach that is worse than the one we lost. This was the guy the Tepper wanted more than anything. And when the Giants let it be known that they wanted him, too, Tepper went all in and lost his damned mind. He gave him carte blanche on running and recruiting this team. We should have let him go to NY. And we should have realized that just the season prior, the NY Jets had decided not to hire him. If the Jets don't think you can do the job better than their last guy, chances you can't. Wanna know someone who is incredibly good at their job? Rhule's agent. That guy worked his ass off to get him this job. Edit to add: Go ahead and fire Rhule. Eat the costs, just do it for the fanbase and our dignity.

You're fighting a losing battle here, man. When Rivera got here, the cupboard was even barer than it was when Rhule arrived. And Cam's first seasons were well beyond what Heinicke provides Rivera now. Cam is still a former league MVP and played pretty darned well, so let's not compare him to Heinicke like Cam was a handicap to us. Yes, you're right about the D-line to a degree, but it wasn't all about size, but more about scheme and motivation. Rivera is a pro-level coach because he just is that guy. He was a pro player. He was a pro assistant coach. He was a pro coach. He still is a pro coach. He gets great and lasting loyalty from his players and he can get them to run through brick walls when he needs to. I'm not trying to convince you he's a great coach. Rivera has had his moments, and he's a good coach, sometimes a not so good coach. Rhule, however, was a good rebuilder of college teams and this is his first pro head coaching gig. It's not working out this time and it shows, for him and his college staff which has minimal pro level experience. Rhule would be very competitive in the Pac-12 or SEC right now, had he gone that way. He's just not building a pro team, his team underperforms its talent level on a regular basis.

His defense was better than our offense. His offense was much better than our defense. His special teams play was better than our special teams. They beat us in all three phases of the game. His team was depleted by injuries to stars and starters, ours wasn't. We had Cam Newton at QB, they had the guy who was a third stringer behind Cam a few years back. Ron Rivera beat us, in front of our home crowd, on a day when everyone was up, when Cam came back as Superman and when we needed the win and he didn't. Not saying Rivera is a great coach, but he is a pro-level coach and Rhule has shown little to no sign that he ever will be one.