Mage

Okay, but that was 100% NOT the thinking back then. Let's not play revisionist history. Everyone was calling for heads then, especially Rivera's. I'd argue the negative reaction was worse than it is now. It was looking like another failed season with our franchise QB.

We also lost to a bad Bills team with EJ Manuel in Week 2 lol

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201310060crd.htm The loss to the Cardinals following the bye had everyone FREAKING out. Maybe the score differential wasn't as bad in other games, but I'd argue that loss is definitely one of the worst regular season ones we had. Everyone had basically given up on Ron Rivera at that point. Cam's 3rd season and he still hadn't cut out the bad throws. Smith dropped hella throws that game. It was bad. As angry as fans have been since Sunday... I still don't think it compares to the reaction/negativity following that game. That game basically forced Ron Rivera to turn into Riverboat Ron.

They saw a QB with a lot of physical talent Unfortunately I don't think they accounted for the fact that he A) lacks the competitive drive that great QBs have (I'm not saying he doesn't work hard or doesn't love football, but he clearly doesn't have another edge to his attitude or game) and B) doesn't have the mental side of the game

Fox was a pretty awful coach his last 3 years here. The pass defense was god awful in 2008 because for some reason all of our CBs had to play 30 yards off the receiver. Ken Lucas should have been benched. Delhomme looked horrible, but I can get why they stuck with him... until the playoff game, when he should have been benched at halftime. 2009, Fox allowed Delhomme to single-handedly destroy a Super Bowl caliber team until it was too late. 2010, Fox gave up. Then again, maybe I'd give up to if my QB was Jimmy Clausen. Not saying Rhule has been perfect, and Rivera wasn't. But I'd argue Fox's refusal to move on from Delhomme and then mentally checking out in 2010 is worse than anything those guys have done (so far).

He played behind a bad one every year after his rookie season and stayed healthy.

That was speculation.

He tore his first ACL at Clemson, before coming back and winning a Natty. Second torn ACL was in practice and had nothing to do with the OL.

Not going to get into the ethical side of the debate. However, one thing that people need to realize is that any scenario where Watson is traded, the draft picks will almost all certainly be conditional. It will likely work the same way the Colts trade for Wentz work. Neither Miami or Carolina are going to trade multiple non-conditional 1sts for Watson. They are all going to be conditional on the # of games he plays in 2022/2023 (although I'd be surprised to see him suspended more than 8 games, and a season-long suspension would almost certainly be appealed by the NFLPA).

It's hard to say. I think it is best to avoid judgment and assumptions right now, but that isn't the society we live in (and no, this is not me saying I think Watson is innocent... I do think he's definitely guilty of something, but that something won't become clearer until later if it ever does) It is possible they want it to be public because they weren't going to pay much for the settlement, which could give off the impression that the accusations weren't that much. On the other end, Buzbee might feel that making the settlement public does more harm to the women than keeping it private. So while it is a weird switch of things, I don't think we can make an assumption about what it means for either sides as far as being in the right vs wrong.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/05/21/tony-buzbee-confirms-demand-for-confidentiality-of-any-deshaun-watson-settlement/

Fair enough, I'm just confused as to why you wouldn't support a team for letting him play but will continue to support a league that will let him play.

Deshaun Watson is going to play football again. That is a 100% fact. So we should be okay with the league letting him play, just as long as he doesn't play for our team? Because that is what it boils down to.

??? Plenty of teams promote within and do so to great success. Rivera's issue wasn't necessarily promoting within, it was promoting people who clearly didn't deserve to be promoted. Sean Ryan has a much stronger resume than Mike Shula had. Ryan would have been a good OC hire at the time if we hadn't already nabbed Brady. And for whatever it's worth, Sean Ryan has experience with two QBs we've targeted... Matt Stafford and now, Deshaun Watson.

This is what I don't get. Why is it okay to follow a league that lets Watson play, but not the team?

I feel like our players don't suck though. I mean maybe I'm in the minority... but I still like a lot of our roster. It's the OL and QB that can be blamed for the majority of our problems. Rhule deserves criticism for not doing more for the OL in his 2 years here, but I think he deserves another offseason to prove that he is willing and able to make the upgrades necessary to that unit. I have confidence that the front office will spend the money to fix it.

I think we have our guy in Sean Ryan. Very well-respected around the league. A lot of experience working with talented QBs and WRs. Matt Stafford liked him a lot. I'd be surprised if he isn't next-in-like for OC.

I still believe in Rhule, and I think it is just hard for any HC to win games with a bad QB. Obviously yes, he deserves blame for deciding to hedge his bets on said QB. But he'd be far from the first good HC to make a poor decision at QB. I do think this team would absolutely be good enough to win with an elite QB like Watson, so we'll see how that goes. I will say, if a year from now, we're still in the same place, then yes it will be time to make a decision. But I don't know, the team isn't really underperforming to me. I expected them to be a mediocre team. They look like a mediocre team.

Just feel like we might be getting our hopes up.

I don't think we end up with Watson.

You don’t bench a QB in a still somewhat winnable game, just to spark the team. Panthers are definitely looking to move on

There’s way too much noise for us not to be in negotiations. What reason do you have to think we aren’t in talks?

Joe Person wouldn’t tweet that if he hadn’t heard from someone.

I’m not taking any side in this debate, but as someone who always defended Rivera and think he got too much criticism at times… I think you’re giving him way too much credit for that “plan.” Any HC who drafted Cam would have implemented a lot of zone read option looks.

Yeah I really can't see him or his lawyers letting this go to trial.