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Would you rather have....

kungfoodude

By kungfoodude,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Miami Dolphins: Pennington/Henne vs. Jake -> Pennington/Henne No on both, for different reasons

Baltimore Ravens: Joe Flacco vs. Jake -> Flacco No, way premature

Cincinnati Bengals: Carson Palmer vs. Jake -> Palmer No. Palmer is overrated

Cleveland Browns: Anderson/Quinn vs. Jake -> Anderson/Quinn Good lord no, especially Anderson

Tennessee Titans: Kerry Collins vs. Jake -> Collins Definitely not

Jacksonville Jaguars: David Garrard vs. Jake -> Garrard Maybe, but what's Garrard really accomplished?

Kansas City Chiefs: Matt Cassell vs. Jake -> Cassell Lord no; right now, Cassel is feeling heat from Brodie Croyle

Dallas Cowboys: Tony Romo vs. Jake -> Romo Have you seen Romo in the playoffs? Definitely no

Green Bay Packers: Aaron Rodgers vs. Jake -> Rodgers Not convinced on Rodgers yet

Chicago Bears: Jay Cutler vs. Jake -> Cutler Ditto; Cutler could still be Jeff George Part Deux

New Orleans Saints: Brees vs. Jake -> Brees For intangibles, no

Atlanta Falcons: Matt Ryan vs. Jake -> Ryan Again, too early

St. Louis Rams: Mark Bulger vs. Jake -> Bulger Not a chance

Seattle Seahawks: Hasselbeck vs. Jake -> Hasselbeck Like most west coast guys, overrated

Sorry. Some of these just don't wash :nonod:

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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McNabb but not by much? Are you serious? I have to hear this argument, IMO, McNabb is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Jake.

In the Super Bowl, who shined and who choked (and chucked)?

Add in that McNabb is another West Coast guy, and they are overrated by nature. He gets on Sportscenter highlights a lot, but that's not really a measure of how good he is.

McNabb is good, but like Peyton Manning at Tennessee (and until recently, in the NFL) he has a nasty tendency to choke in big games. Plus, his injury history hasn't exactly been stellar.

I might end up taking McNabb, but I'd be iffy.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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Very interesting exercise, there are only two of these I really disagree with:

St. Louis Rams: Mark Bulger vs. Jake -> Bulger

Chicago Bears: Jay Cutler vs. Jake -> Cutler

Bulger looked good when he took over because he had two HOF WR's to throw the ball to and and all-pro HB. He was handed the keys to a Cadillac and just had to keep it on the road. Now that those guys are gone, and the running game isn't what it used to be - he's been exposed. Jake has had a HOF receiver as his disposal for the better part of his career as well as decent running game, but he also makes better use of some of the average talent around him. When Bulger throws for 300 yards and 3 TD's in a Superbowl, get back to me. I also don't think Bulger is the leader that Jake is, I don't see that same competitive fire in Bulger that causes guys to rally around him.

Cutler has a million dollar arm and a ten cent brain. With all his talent he has a losing record. He trusts his arm too much and makes terrible decisions that hurt his team. Jake make terrible decisions too, but Jake is a winner and can come through in a pinch - Cutler has never displayed that... I question both his brain and his heart. He's also bad for the locker room, what does he do after his first lackluster performance as a Bear? He throws Hester under the bus....

I would counter that a very big part of Bulger's recent decline is the decline of their offensive line as well. Remember when in Warner/Early Bulger years they consistently had a top shelf line. Not so anymore. My reasoning is that Bulger is a more capable QB and with a good offensive line and running game to back him up. But it could also be that Bulger holds on to the ball too long. IMO, I would try Bulger over Jake.

Cutler is young but has immense talent. Plus his decision making is overall clearly better than Jake's, IMO. It's hard for me to criticize him for not being a winner either, he wasn't in quite the situation that we were/are as a team. Again, I'll take Cutler on our team over Jake.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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In the Super Bowl, who shined and who choked (and chucked)?

Add in that McNabb is another West Coast guy, and they are overrated by nature. He gets on Sportscenter highlights a lot, but that's not really a measure of how good he is.

McNabb is good, but like Peyton Manning at Tennessee (and until recently, in the NFL) he has a nasty tendency to choke in big games. Plus, his injury history hasn't exactly been stellar.

I might end up taking McNabb, but I'd be iffy.

Mr. Scot, I would love to see your list because it looks as if you might have Jake as a top 10 QB, from your response. Gonna have to hear why you think that.

Again, the argument is putting that QB on our team and in our situation.

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

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I have always said that Jake is a little better than average, and that would put him somewhere between 13-16, which is probably where he should be.

You can probably pick out two QB's from each division that you would rather have, and that would put him middle of the pack.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Mr. Scot, I would love to see your list because it looks as if you might have Jake as a top 10 QB, from your response. Gonna have to hear why you think that.

Again, the argument is putting that QB on our team and in our situation.

I don't make top ten lists. I think the whole exercise of ranking is largely worthless. I don't care where a guy ranks overall, only whether he can do the job or not.

If you want to put the qualifier of "our team, our situation" that automatically disqualifies any and all West Coast QBs because we don't run that system (and shouldn't, with our personnel).

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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I don't make top ten lists. I think the whole exercise of ranking is largely worthless. I don't care where a guy ranks overall, only whether he can do the job or not.

If you want to put the qualifier of "our team, our situation" that automatically disqualifies any and all West Coast QBs because we don't run that system (and shouldn't, with our personnel).

It's not really a top ten list. Again, the exercise is to decide whether or not you would RATHER have said QB than Jake, that being where you would personally rank him in the starting QB's of the league, irrespective of where everyone else falls in the rankings.

I also don't see that it disqualifies any West Coast QB's. It's simply a matter of whether or not they could/have/will be able fit into our system based on their attributes and your personal opinion.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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It's not really a top ten list. Again, the exercise is to decide whether or not you would RATHER have said QB than Jake, that being where you would personally rank him in the starting QB's of the league, irrespective of where everyone else falls in the rankings.

I also don't see that it disqualifies any West Coast QB's. It's simply a matter of whether or not they could/have/will be able fit into our system based on their attributes and your personal opinion.

Comparing one for one doesn't equal ranking. Again, I don't care about overall rank, just where they fit with us.

West Coast QBs generally don't translate well into other systems. Jeff Garcia is a prime example. Watching him in Philly, Tampa or San Fran would make you think he was a world beater. Watching him in Cleveland or Detroit would make you wonder how he was even in the league.

And in truth, even a lot of QBs who run other types of offenses don't do so well when they move to new systems. That's why there are a lot more Scott Mitchells than there are Drew Brees.

Taking a backup and moving him to a new system is generally easier than moving a starter because teams all to often build everything (scheme, personnel, etc) around that starter. Moving them elsewhere makes for the proverbial square peg, round hole situation.

And I'd add that many of these guys are overhyped for one reason or another. They get on Sportscenter with highlights that make them look better than they really are if you watch the whole game (Carson Palmer is probably the best example here).

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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Comparing one for one doesn't equal ranking. Again, I don't care about overall rank, just where they fit with us.

West Coast QBs generally don't translate well into other systems. Jeff Garcia is a prime example. Watching him in Philly, Tampa or San Fran would make you think he was a world beater. Watching him in Cleveland or Detroit would make you wonder how he was even in the league.

And in truth, even a lot of QBs who run other types of offenses don't do so well when they move to new systems. That's why there are a lot more Scott Mitchells than there are Drew Brees.

Taking a backup and moving him to a new system is generally easier than moving a starter because teams all to often build everything (scheme, personnel, etc) around that starter. Moving them elsewhere makes for the proverbial square peg, round hole situation.

And I'd add that many of these guys are overhyped for one reason or another. They get on Sportscenter with highlights that make them look better than they really are if you watch the whole game (Carson Palmer is probably the best example here).

It is in fact a ranking, of sorts. Although it's clearly weighted towards one's specific team and system.

Again, I never said you couldn't factor in any of the points you made. Since it is YOUR own personal list, it would be foolish not to. The point of the exercise is to defend your reasonings as to why you have him rated as you do and why one QB is better or worse.

I am simply wondering why you don't weigh in with a list? Unless I am misreading your previous posts and you don't have him as a top 10 QB for our team and our situation?

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