Re-Grading the 2013 draft

[ctrcat]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This.  If we'd had the #1 overall pick in that draft, I would've wanted Star there.  When you get the guy you would've taken at #1 at #14, that's just unbelievable. 

Most people have no clue as to the plight and struggle to get to the ecstasy.  It had been nearly 5 years since our playoff debacle to the Cardinals and we were 2-14 in one score games with the new regime, but anyone with even one much less two eyeballs KNEW we were much better than our record and that plugging our Grand Canyon sized hole in the middle was vital to taking the next step.  Knowing full well the playoffs were out, the jockeying for draft position started early and Star seemed out of reach even at 2-8.  Nothing $hittier than yet another lost season in October.  A late season tear all but crushed the hopes of landing Star for all.  Even a feel good thrashing over our hated nemesis with the man formerly known on Twitter as OverlordKraken https://mobile.twitter.com/GregHardyJr telling the evil ones to GTFO our field wasn't QUITE as satisfying as it could have been because we felt as if it meant Star was out of reach.  The murder/suicide in KC is truly the only thing that stopped a 6 game win streak to end the year and Star being a Saint, who undoubtedly would have taken him right after us and still to this day have felt the void of having weak defensive tackle play.  Star being a Panther is a borderline miracle, with a team as "good" as we were having the #14 pick and a player as good as Star falling the way he did.  I eagerly anticipate him taking his game to the next level as he is no doubt capable.

[L-TownCat]

2 hours ago, top dawg said:

I respect your opinion, but I just see things differently. I'm looking at the player's talent, flashes and production irrespective of round. I have seen enough mid and late round guys, as well as UDFAs, over the years to where it's not even surprising anymore to see them make huge impacts and garner huge paydays. I just can't give Klein an A in good conscience because I haven't seen enough for my taste even to project him as an A-level talent. But if it's any consolation, I thought about it. Klein filled in nicely.  Even if I had given him an A, Getty still get's a B because Barner and Kugbila drag the grade down like a ship trying to drag an anchor.

On an off note, I am excited to see what Mayo has. I was also more than a little disappointed when we cut Adarius Glanton. 

I see where you're coming from and I can appreciate the straightforward thinking, however, I would like to pose a question.

Lets say Star proved to be a middling talent never reaching his perceived potential and AJ became a solid starter and an every down contributor.

Would your grade remain the same?  

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, L-TownCat said:

I see where you're coming from and I can appreciate the straightforward thinking, however, I would like to pose a question.

Lets say Star proved to be a middling talent never reaching his perceived potential and AJ became a solid starter and an every down contributor.

Would your grade remain the same?  

Nah, man, none of these grades are set in stone. They are only based on two years out. Could A.J. rise above Star? Sure! You know I must think highly of him as I gave him the same grade. I think that's a testimony to what he has achieved in limited action. As for expectations, he has arguably met or exceeded expectations in regards to relative draft value. But I have to look at real production also, as well as perceived talent and flashes. Star arguably did more in one season (his rookie season, of course) than A.J. has done in two. Star really had a good season, relatively, his rookie year. Injuries have probably held him back, but at some point, unfortunately those have to be factored in as well (especially if they play a consistent part from now on). But basically, at least in my opinion, Star has been more valuable to the team (particularly how the defense is built).

Now with the additions of Soliai and Big Vern, who knows If Star's perceived value remains the same?

As for Klein, note that his best work has been as an outside 4-3 linebacker. I can't seem to find his overall ranking, but I am assuming that it's closer to middle of the pack, especially considering that his coverage skills could improve. He is a good and solid linebacker regardless, but I think an A grade is kind of a stretch for right now.

 

[L-TownCat]

2 hours ago, top dawg said:

Nah, man, none of these grades are set in stone. They are only based on two years out. Could A.J. rise above Star? Sure! You know I must think highly of him as I gave him the same grade. I think that's a testimony to what he has achieved in limited action. As for expectations, he has arguably met or exceeded expectations in regards to relative draft value. But I have to look at real production also, as well as perceived talent and flashes. Star arguably did more in one season (his rookie season, of course) than A.J. has done in two. Star really had a good season, relatively, his rookie year. Injuries have probably held him back, but at some point, unfortunately those have to be factored in as well (especially if they play a consistent part from now on). But basically, at least in my opinion, Star has been more valuable to the team (particularly how the defense is built).

Now with the additions of Soliai and Big Vern, who knows If Star's perceived value remains the same?

As for Klein, note that his best work has been as an outside 4-3 linebacker. I can't seem to find his overall ranking, but I am assuming that it's closer to middle of the pack, especially considering that his coverage skills could improve. He is a good and solid linebacker regardless, but I think an A grade is kind of a stretch for right now.

 

I apologize I didn't word that the way I needed to.

 

What I'm getting at is this, instead of at this point having Star as a B(above average) and Klein as a B, what if Klein had been more of a contributor during this span of time and Star had been relegated to back up duty and FG packages.

Since you said that where they were drafted doesn't play into your grades, I was just curious to see if your opinion would change of the overall grade if the 1st rounder had not panned out while the 5th overachieved.  Would that balance out in your eyes?

(sorry for the odd wording the first time)

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, L-TownCat said:

I apologize I didn't word that the way I needed to.

 

What I'm getting at is this, instead of at this point having Star as a B(above average) and Klein as a B, what if Klein had been more of a contributor during this span of time and Star had been relegated to back up duty and FG packages.

Since you said that where they were drafted doesn't play into your grades, I was just curious to see if your opinion would change of the overall grade if the 1st rounder had not panned out while the 5th overachieved.  Would that balance out in your eyes?

(sorry for the odd wording the first time)

Well the main factor would depend upon what each had shown of course. I promise you that without Star's first season---or let's say his first season had been similar to his second, I'd lower his grade to a C. Even though he'd be near bust territory, I wouldn't weight his grade more than the others simply because he was a first rounder, but that's just me. He wasn't useless the last two seasons, just not up to A-grade standards. This season will be important in determining whether he is just a decided, yearly injury risk and/or whether his first year was indicative of a promising, outstanding career path, or a mirage. 

If Klein had come in and basically torn it up over the last three seasons, I would likely have given him an A. But, again, it would all just depend.

[PanthersGOATFan336]

Did I miss something, why is every topic have a link instead of content now?

[L-TownCat]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

Well he main factor would depend upon what each had shown of course. I promise you that without Star's first season---or let's say his first season had been similar to his second, I'd lower his grade to a C. Even though he'd be near bust territory, I wouldn't weight his grade more than the others simply because he was a first rounder, but that's just me. He wasn't useless the last two seasons, just not up to A-grade standards. This season will be important in determining whether he is just a decided, yearly injury risk and/or whether his first year was indicative of a promising, outstanding career path, or a mirage. 

If Klein had come in and basically torn it up over the last three seasons, I would likely have given him an A. But, again, it would all just depend.

Gotcha, I just try to look at things from different perspectives to help create a larger picture.  When you said draft position did not weight your grades of the players I wanted to test that theory a little.

i am satisfied with your reply, carry on.  Lol

[top dawg]

Just now, L-TownCat said:

Gotcha, I just try to look at things from different perspectives to help create a larger picture.  When you said draft position did not weight your grades of the players I wanted to test that theory a little.

i am satisfied with your reply, carry on.  Lol

I guess I'm just a little more old school (still back in the 80s or something). Used to be a time when first and second rounders didn't have to come in and light the world on fire right away.  Moreover, I guess I just appreciate good football players, and have seen enough come from the later rounds that I throw them all in one pot, right or wrong. Gettleman has probably spoiled me a little bit also, in that I know that more first and second rounders stand the test of time, but I'll be danged if Getty hasn't made some nice picks on day 3 (including UDFAs). For example, I will be highly disappointed if Sandland doesn't get enough snaps and nice plays this season to warrant at least a B after three seasons.  But, like I said, I feel you. There's a whole lot of subjectivity going on, particularly among us fans.