It's more than just the players...

[Steve_Smith_Sr.]

Yes, we lost a lot of talented players, but last years team had chemistry.  Everyone talked about how it was a family.  Everyone had each others back.  Everyone WANTED to be here.  That is much harder to create than just sticking good players in the locker room together.

It's really a once in a lifetime thing and it's really sad to see it vanish the way it obviously has.

 

 

[KB_fan]

There seems to be something to what you write.  I'm wondering if letting Josh go and not signing KK hurt things in the locker room more than we can know.

By all accounts (includlng coaches) Josh was one of the hardest working guys on the team.  Last one off the fields at training camp, if I recall correctly...   A home-grown star.  Carolina guy.

And then the team releases him in a very sudden & strange way....  And KK has a star season, and yet we don't get his deal done. 

I don't necessarily fault Dave and our F.O. for either or both these situations, but somehow the "NFL as business" has maybe intruded on the team chemistry.  Guys give their all and don't get rewarded (at least YET, in KK's case) on the team they want to be with.   I think Josh's absence is much more than just his absence on the field, but I think it took some of the joy out of the locker room, and perhaps made some of the younger guys in our defense pretty unhappy...

 

[TylerDurden]

Ask yourself, when is the last time you saw a player considered the top FA at his position, an all-pro, have the franchise tag rescinded and made a UFA?  I dont recall it off the top of my head, EVER.  Now, when's the last time you saw or heard a GM brag to the media about what a hard ass he is for stonewalling agents?  

This is these players' livelihoods...  you dont think that plays into their mind?  Their deals are only partially guaranteed in the first place.  Now, add in all the other factors - homegrown talent, drafted and developed here, hometown guy, good guy, likeable in the locker room and off the field...  i'd imagine it definitely has an effect.

[Snake]

40 minutes ago, Steve_Smith_Sr. said:

Yes, we lost a lot of talented players, but last years team had chemistry.  Everyone talked about how it was a family.  Everyone had each others back.  Everyone WANTED to be here.  That is much harder to create than just sticking good players in the locker room together.

It's really a once in a lifetime thing and it's really sad to see it vanish the way it obviously has.

 

 

We lost Norman. Who else did we lose? 

[electro's horse]

surely you meant to hit reply, and not post

[Darvinsun]

26 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

There seems to be something to what you write.  I'm wondering if letting Josh go and not signing KK hurt things in the locker room more than we can know.

By all accounts (includlng coaches) Josh was one of the hardest working guys on the team.  Last one off the fields at training camp, if I recall correctly...   A home-grown star.  Carolina guy.

And then the team releases him in a very sudden & strange way....  And KK has a star season, and yet we don't get his deal done. 

I don't necessarily fault Dave and our F.O. for either or both these situations, but somehow the "NFL as business" has maybe intruded on the team chemistry.  Guys give their all and don't get rewarded (at least YET, in KK's case) on the team they want to be with.   I think Josh's absence is much more than just his absence on the field, but I think it took some of the joy out of the locker room, and perhaps made some of the younger guys in our defense pretty unhappy...

 

Josh has been with the team about as long as Cam and was playing at high level..you say the locker room was tight ..one of the voices on defense..hell he thought as well as Cam that he would be a panther..he was even working out with Cam..then boom he is gone with no warning..and for what cause you felt no long term deal would be met...these guys are trying to repeat and let a key compent just like that walk..Of course it disrupts the team..its just like rumors at your job saying there is a layoff coming they just let one of the key people go in the company go..you know its something behind it because youknow how hard that person works and gets the job done...everybody starts looking for new jobs..and walking on pins and needles

[Snake]

32 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

There seems to be something to what you write.  I'm wondering if letting Josh go and not signing KK hurt things in the locker room more than we can know.

By all accounts (includlng coaches) Josh was one of the hardest working guys on the team.  Last one off the fields at training camp, if I recall correctly...   A home-grown star.  Carolina guy.

And then the team releases him in a very sudden & strange way....  And KK has a star season, and yet we don't get his deal done. 

I don't necessarily fault Dave and our F.O. for either or both these situations, but somehow the "NFL as business" has maybe intruded on the team chemistry.  Guys give their all and don't get rewarded (at least YET, in KK's case) on the team they want to be with.   I think Josh's absence is much more than just his absence on the field, but I think it took some of the joy out of the locker room, and perhaps made some of the younger guys in our defense pretty unhappy...

 

Or just maybe our system is just not that good. Last year we had enough talent to overcome it along with a cake schedule. This year not so much. How does a team with two MVPs not win 2 out of 5 games? 

[juliosantos]

gettleman getting rid of norman is like the seachickens getting rid of sherman you would never see that happen but we are the panthers we always did bs like that. we breed the players just to have them walk out

[carolinajay]

3 hours ago, juliosantos said:

we breed the players just to have them walk out

like who?

[truthjuice]

It probably hurt the locker room in the sense that they don't feel like management has their back. You can't remove that type of personality without replacing it. Its beyond Josh as a player or Peanut as a player. Personalities matter. I've said since week 3, they do not trust what's going on. When the FO makes moves like this and they try to carry on with business as usual, it works and it doesn't. With this team, they all fed off of each other and they all, like you said, had each other's back. So breaking it up and the way it was done, I'm not shocked by this. It's only a matter of time before it all starts to come out. They are clearly frustrated and Ron's attitude about it and Gettleman's silence is sickening. 

[Teach_Panther]

Lol, when Cam and Norman got into a fight in practice, I was like okaaay.... It takes a hell of a player to pick a fight with a franchise QB in preseason. I was like... who is this kid. Then he came out and balled.   I think the moral of the story is that we had a few alphas on that team and that had competitive drive and were pushing each other.

[carolinajay]

3 hours ago, truthjuice said:

It probably hurt the locker room in the sense that they don't feel like management has their back. You can't remove that type of personality without replacing it. Its beyond Josh as a player or Peanut as a player. Personalities matter. I've said since week 3, they do not trust what's going on. When the FO makes moves like this and they try to carry on with business as usual, it works and it doesn't. With this team, they all fed off of each other and they all, like you said, had each other's back. So breaking it up and the way it was done, I'm not shocked by this. It's only a matter of time before it all starts to come out. They are clearly frustrated and Ron's attitude about it and Gettleman's silence is sickening. 

Denver: Gano Missed FG

Minnesota: Benjamin penalty negates 17-2 lead over now 5-0 Vikings

Tampa Bay: Derek Anderson Terrible INT

New Orleans: Poor Defense / Slow Start but a chance to win

The panthers could easily be 5-1 right now.

Its not about personalities its about execution. 

[KB_fan]

39 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

Denver: Gano Missed FG

Minnesota: Benjamin penalty negates 17-2 lead over now 5-0 Vikings

Tampa Bay: Derek Anderson Terrible INT

New Orleans: Poor Defense / Slow Start but a chance to win

The panthers could easily be 5-1 right night.

Its not about personalities its about execution. 

fair enough.  I'm usually an optimist, and I've been saying similar things the past few weeks.  But what CAUSES the poor execution?  It's not just one player struggling, or one game?  When it's so consistent and widespread it makes me begin to suspect an underlying issue. 

Obviously losing itself is a possible cause of poor execution.  If you're demoralized (e.g. after the awful Broncos game which reopened all the SB loss pain) that can affect performance too.  But with such terrible performance on things like pass rush, 3rd downs (on both offense & defense) and seeming being out of sync on offense much too often... I think the issues are deeper.  We're struggling in fundamentals.

[carolinajay]

3 hours ago, KB_fan said:

fair enough.  I'm usually an optimist, and I've been saying similar things the past few weeks.  But what CAUSES the poor execution?  It's not just one player struggling, or one game?  When it's so consistent and widespread it makes me begin to suspect an underlying issue.  Obviously losing itself is a cause.  If you're demoralized (e.g. after the awful Broncos game which reopened all the SB loss pain) that can affect performance too.  But with such terrible performance on things like pass rush, 3rd downs (on both offense & defense) and seeming being out of sync on offense much too often... I think the issues are deeper.  We're struggling in fundamentals.

I agree. Its sad that the only hope of getting off the field on 3rd down is a drop. 

Without Stewart, Cam was the best running option on the team and it put more pressure on him. 

Both units are under performing so there is not much room for error.