Analysis: Beyond The Completion Percentage - Why Carolina's Scheme And Weapons Made Life Hard For Cam

[Saca312]

37 minutes ago, falconidae said:

One,  haven't said anything negative about Cam's character

Two, I've said he was a good QB, I said he was a top ten QB but not a top 3 one, that he's not as accurate as some here would like to pretend and that he has some blame for all the difficult long passes.

How is that denigrating him at all? 

Three, some of my posts from 2016 have disappeared, I've commented on various topics since I've been here.

Can't find a Code of Conduct for the site, but don't think I've done anything to get myself banned. 

 

I like your outside perspective on things. I don't agree with it, but brings about debate which I do like. You actually back up what you say with facts unlike most trolls.

I don't see anything from you that would be ban-worthy. 

[Bytes]

20 minutes ago, lightsout said:

Let me help some folks here.

Everybody knows Cam's numbers. We know them. We know what those numbers tend to suggest about a QB. What the argument is is that with better talent (as in, not bottom tier skill talent outside of Greg Olsen) and with better playcalling/schemes, Cam's numbers would have been much better and this myth of him being inaccurate would be nonexistent. Cam misses throws because QBs miss throws sometimes (even Brady). It happens. He misses the same amount, on average, as most QBs. His numbers end up looking worse because he's throwing the ball much deeper than most QBs, on average.

SMH...

You can make the "surrounding talent" argument for half the league. And no Brady doesnt miss the same amount of throws as Cam. If they did they would have the same completion percentage. Its just too much real data and too much film to support the fact that Cam is an average passer... great duel threat however. 

[Saca312]

1 minute ago, Bytes said:

SMH...

You can make the "surrounding talent" argument for half the league. And no Brady doesnt miss the same amount of throws as Cam. If they did they would have the same completion percentage. Its just too much real data and too much film to support the fact that Cam is an average passer... great duel threat however. 

Bah.

"Average Passer"

"Average Passer"

"Average Passer"

Gais Cam Newton is just an average passer! Any QB can do this! 

Just ignore the many analysts who have extensively watched Cam and say otherwise!

[lightsout]

18 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

That doesn't really help anybody. The question is why does he throw further downfield all the time? Is it his own decision making or is it the OC? I believe that Cam has plenty of influence on game planning and he definitely has a say in who he's  throwing it to on any given play, and that you can't blame everything bad that happens on the OC or the play calling. Hell, people are already bashing Shula for next season and that's just ludicrous.

I have been to at least one game each season of Cam's career. It's the scheme. I've seen it in person. Nothing but downfield routes. Does Cam sometimes miss an open guy because he's looking at the first or second guy in the progression? Sure. But that's the downfall of a deep passing-centric system. Cam is just trying to make the system Shula wants to run work. Cam does fail to see open guys, like all QBs do. He's human. 

And you're really gonna blame Cam for not changing the scheme that his coaches put in place? Unless he is given that level of freedom (which none of us know that he does or does not have that), that is not his job. Cam has to operate within the scope of what his coaches want him to do. That's fact.

You are out of your field of knowledge on this particular subject, based on what you've said this entire thread.

[lightsout]

9 minutes ago, Bytes said:

SMH...

You can make the "surrounding talent" argument for half the league. And no Brady doesnt miss the same amount of throws as Cam. If they did they would have the same completion percentage. Its just too much real data and too much film to support the fact that Cam is an average passer... great duel threat however. 

Go sit down, the adults are talking.

[Snake]

4 hours ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

You're welcome to your opinion but the Pats have always scored when they needed to and won when they needed to. Also, if we're not going to compare ourselves to the best of the best, then why even bother with any of this? I want my team to win consistently and win SB's like the Pats. Isn't that what we all want? Isn't that what all QB's are ultimately judged on? I want our team to win and for Cam to be a winner like Tom Brady. If he has a problem with the damn play calling, then he needs to speak the hell up and insist that they listen to him. Otherwise, why is he even here?

That's right the Pats not Brady. Thank you for proving my point. Also Cam has beaten Brady and was also MVP just like Brady. The only thing Cam isn't is a cheater like Brady and the Pats. 

[Hogmolliesmaht]

10 minutes ago, lightsout said:

I have been to at least one game each season of Cam's career. It's the scheme. I've seen it in person. Nothing but downfield routes. Does Cam sometimes miss an open guy because he's looking at the first or second guy in the progression? Sure. But that's the downfall of a deep passing-centric system. Cam is just trying to make the system Shula wants to run work. Cam does fail to see open guys, like all QBs do. He's human. 

And you're really gonna blame Cam for not changing the scheme that his coaches put in place? Unless he is given that level of freedom (which none of us know that he does or does not have that), that is not his job. Cam has to operate within the scope of what his coaches want him to do. That's fact.

You are out of your field of knowledge on this particular subject, based on what you've said this entire thread.

I'm sorry but how does watching at least one game a year in person make you anymore knowledgable than me? Are you a coach? Do you have access to the coaches' tape that they use? How do you explain that people are claiming that Shula called completely different plays for Anderson, and if he did, then why?

 

Cam's career completion percentage is 58.4%. I don't care who you blame it on, but that has to get better if we want to win SB's.

 

And just for the record, Newton's average per attempt is 7.4 and Brady's is 7.49.

[Saca312]

2 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

I'm sorry but how does watching at least one game a year in person make you anymore knowledgable than me? Are you a coach? Do you have access to the coaches' tape that they use? How do you explain that people are claiming that Shula called completely different plays for Anderson, and if he did, then why?

 

Cam's career completion percentage is 58.4%. I don't care who you blame it on, but that has to get better if we want to win SB's.

And he keeps going back to that "58.4%" completion percentage like that means anything.

Yet denies every piece of film and analysis from guys who actually have a reputation from doing just that. 

This - my friends - is the very definition of a troll who can't back his crap up.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

Just now, Saca312 said:

And he keeps going back to that "58.4%" completion percentage like that means anything.

Yet denies every piece of film and analysis from guys who actually have a reputation from doing just that. 

This - my friends - is the very definition of a troll who can't back his crap up.

If it doesn't mean anything then why do they bother keeping those stats? Of course it means something just like Yds per carry means something and Yds per catch means something. There are plenty of guys who get paid for this stuff that will point that out just like I did. That's a fact. I know because I have seen them and heard them do it.

 

For the record, I expect Cam to do much better than that this year with the exact same OC and the exact same play book. There will be no excuses for the coaching staff or for Cam this year.

[lightsout]

2 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

I'm sorry but how does watching at least one game a year in person make you anymore knowledgable than me? Are you a coach? Do you have access to the coaches' tape that they use? How do you explain that people are claiming that Shula called completely different plays for Anderson, and if he did, then why?

 

Cam's career completion percentage is 58.4%. I don't care who you blame it on, but that has to get better if we want to win SB's.

Me saying that is me saying I have seen the plays in person. As in, not just on television. As in, seeing the depth of every route easier and on a consistent basis, year-to-year.

I'm saying you're not knowledgeable on this subject because you've demonstrated that much to me thus far. You're just saying "BUT THE COMPLETION PERCENTAGE IS THIS GAIS!" while completely ignoring the ENTIRE point of this thread (which is that Cam's completion percentage can effectively be blamed, in large part, to his OL, WRs, and overall scheme of having to throw the ball deeper on a larger number of throws per game than any QB in the league).

Any shaved monkey can spout off stats from ESPN and say they're informed. Those numbers say a lot, unless you actually watch games. You think Brady is out there driving the ball in tight windows? No. He's throwing slants, screens, and drag routes 20 times per game with 3 20+ yard shots down field (numbers not accurate, simply making a point, based on the few games I have seen of the Pats each season for the past few years). Brady is given, by his system, higher percentage throws. Cam is throwing a pretty impressive percentage, given the number of deep shots he is FORCED to take because the design of the plays are 15+ yards down field on a very consistent basis. THAT is the point of this entire thread.

So, quit parroting stats from Google searches and actually listen to what people who take the time to really think about this game and this team are saying. Because we know more than you. Clearly.

[Bytes]

10 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Note your use of words "believe" and "think" which suggest subjective opinion when discussing the scheme and Cam's role. You have no evidence to back your claim even though you've been refuted constantly by those who have watched film of Cam. Thus, all you're doing is spouting opinionated bullcrap that comes from nothing.

If necessary, I can bring up three guys who have watched Cam's 2016 season right now who have publicly said scheme and offensive personnel in said scheme was the reason Cam struggled. These are factual assessments of events that actually occurred.

 

Some say 2016 was an aberration. Some say 2015 was an aberration. I say they are both were who Cam is. Even in his MVP year his completion completion was only 59%. You have to go all the way back to 2003 to find a MVP QB with similar passing stats which was Steve McNair and he had a 60.2% rating. Cam had more your yards however. Cam is who he is and thats ok.

Side note, every QB after that year who won the MVP was at least 65% and 4000+ yards. 

[Bytes]

13 minutes ago, lightsout said:

Go sit down, the adults are talking.

Your not making any sense. I stated facts now you are pouting. 

[lightsout]

Just now, Hogmolliesmaht said:

 

For the record, I expect Cam to do much better than that this year with the exact same OC and the exact same play book. There will be no excuses for the coaching staff or for Cam this year.

I agree with this point. The playbook isn't necessarily "bad". It just requires VERY high levels of execution with a very small margin for error as compared to what other "elite" QBs are asked to do. This is fact. Look at EVERY play Brady runs, then look at EVERY play Cam runs. Tell me you don't see a LARGE difference.

Cam did fine in this same system in 2015 because our OL stayed healthy and figured out how to work together. He struggled last year because of OL and his WRs not getting separation deep in a system that asked them to go deep far more than it asked them to run slants. That, ONCE AGAIN, is the point of the thread.

[lightsout]

2 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Your not making any sense. I stated facts now you are pouting. 

You saying something doesn't make it fact. You are claiming Cam is an average passer when all of his peers call him elite. Soooooo, bye Tia.