Carolina Panthers are now extinct

[Palmetto]

7 hours ago, EgoDogg said:

A tinder account would probably yield quicker results.

Not if you want baby Panthers...no one uses Tinder for that

[Mol3m4n]

My dad saw a black panther in the woods behind his house a couple years back. He said it had a long, swooping tail. I don't know a bobcat or a fox like that. 

[Teach_Panther]

I just gotta call BS. There is no genetic difference between the so-called "eastern cougar" and mountain lions roaming west of the Mississippi. Same cat. The name was something made up by wildlife biologists before genetic testing.  Beyond that, they never really left, although their numbers have been critically low.  You can talk to people who have hunted for 40 years in the SE, but they have never seen a black bear in the wild, but no serious wildlife biologist would argue they aren't any black bears in the same areas. Same with coyotes, who are very good at avoiding humans. Most people who can live in rural areas will hear coyotes all the time, but how many times do they actually see one?  Almost never unless you spend a lot of time in the woods. They can smell and hear you a long time before you see them.  If they don't want to be seen, they won't be usually unless you just get lucky, or there is something wrong with the animal, i.e. it is sick or old.

[LinvilleGorge]

28 minutes ago, Teach_Panther said:

I just gotta call BS. There is no genetic difference between the so-called "eastern cougar" and mountain lions roaming west of the Mississippi. Same cat. The name was something made up by wildlife biologists before genetic testing.  Beyond that, they never really left, although their numbers have been critically low.  You can talk to people who have hunted for 40 years in the SE, but they have never seen a black bear in the wild, but no serious wildlife biologist would argue they aren't any black bears in the same areas. Same with coyotes, who are very good at avoiding humans. Most people who can live in rural areas will hear coyotes all the time, but how many times do they actually see one?  Almost never unless you spend a lot of time in the woods. They can smell and hear you a long time before you see them.  If they don't want to be seen, they won't be usually unless you just get lucky, or there is something wrong with the animal, i.e. it is sick or old.

Here in CO, I see coyotes all the time. My grandparents see coyotes in the field behind their house quite often in western NC. Not rare to see bears here in CO or western NC either. Bobcats are really damn elusive though. Never saw one in western NC and have only seen one here in CO. I've seen two mountain lions here in CO, one was actually napping in my backyard.

As far as the eastern cougar, yes it was a distinct subspecies. Penn State has actually done a genetic study on the subspecies using mitochondrial DNA.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Mol3m4n said:

My dad saw a black panther in the woods behind his house a couple years back. He said it had a long, swooping tail. I don't know a bobcat or a fox like that. 

There has never been a confirmed case of a black mountain lion. Not once.

[Teach_Panther]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Here in CO, I see coyotes all the time. My grandparents see coyotes in the field behind their house quite often in western NC. Not rare to see bears here in CO or western NC either. Bobcats are really damn elusive though. Never saw one in western NC and have only seen one here in CO. I've seen two mountain lions here in CO, one was actually napping in my backyard.

As far as the eastern cougar, yes it was a distinct subspecies. Penn State has actually done a genetic study on the subspecies using mitochondrial DNA.

It is very rare for the average person to see these animals.  A lot depends on the terrain and where you live, but most people will almost never see a black bear or coyote in the wild in the SE, but they are there.

When was the study done? Modern genetic testing says they are the same cat. You can take a male puma from South America and mate it with a female mountain lion from the Rockies, and it will produce healthy viable offspring that can reproduce. Slight differences in mitochondrial DNA lineage do not a different species make, unless you just want to split hairs for the sake of conservation.

Here is a recent article by national geographic done on the subject:

"The words cougar, puma, mountain lion, and catamount all refer to the same large cat, known scientifically as Puma concolor. When early European settlers first moved to North America, taxonomists began classifying the cats as different subspecies. Eastern cougars, Western mountain lions, the North American cougar, and the Florida panther, for example, were uniquely labelled.

"[Classification] was based on things like the fur coat of animals and nuanced differences in sizes," says Robinson.

A cougar living in the desert, for example, might look slightly different than one more adapted to a forest in Canada.

But advances in genetic testing have since proven that these differently named American cats are genetically the same."

 

[LinvilleGorge]

The study was in 2015.

The eastern cougar wasn't a completely different subspecies but it was a distinct subspecies.

[Carolina Mike]

I live in WA now and hunt in both Oregon and Washington. I’m calling BS on “People can’t tell if it’s a Bobcat or Mountain Lion!” If you aren’t able to do that you have no reason to be in the woods! Cougars, Mountain Lion or whatever you want to call it are out there. They normally aren’t wanting to be found.

Side Note: When I was stationed in El Paso, TX there was a Mountain Lion scare in DOWNTOWN El Paso...

http://www.kvia.com/news/cougar-shot-and-killed-after-roaming-downtown-and-short-chase/53348979

[Teach_Panther]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The study was in 2015.

The eastern cougar wasn't a completely different subspecies but it was a distinct subspecies.

And that distinction was probably based upon conservation motives. There is no meaningful genetic difference between any of these subgroups. Genetically speaking, it is the same animal regardless of region. Their might be some slight physical characteristics that distinguish them, but there is some variability within a species in appearance based upon environmental factors and local genetic populations, but it is the same species.  This is like saying a some copper haired kid from Ireland is a different species from his raven haired cousin 1000 times removed in Wales.

[Carolina Mike]

6 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

From a distance, would people really know the difference between a Bobcat on the large side, and a Cougar?  Bla Bla Bla. So if one saw a large Bobcat from a distance, they might think its a Cougar.  

Country People Know!

 

[Carolina Mike]

City People Only Know

[Teach_Panther]

6 minutes ago, Carolina Mike said:

I live in WA now and hunt in both Oregon and Washington. I’m calling BS on “People can’t tell if it’s a Bobcat or Mountain Lion!” If you aren’t able to do that you have no reason to be in the woods! Cougars, Mountain Lion or whatever you want to call it are out there. They normally aren’t wanting to be found.

Side Note: When I was stationed in El Paso, TX there was a Mountain Lion scare in DOWNTOWN El Paso...

http://www.kvia.com/news/cougar-shot-and-killed-after-roaming-downtown-and-short-chase/53348979

Agreed. I live in the SE and about fifteen years ago, I walked down the drive to check my mail and at maybe 50 yards personally saw one take off from a sitting position and cross a four lane (plus median we are talking about sixty feet). In three jumps cleared it like it was nothing. Not a deer, not a bobcat (which I have never seen in the wild though I have spent a lot of times in the woods), but a big ass tawny cat with a long tail. House was on the edge of huge swath of forest. From time to time, we would occasionally have animals come up missing and always assumed it was coyotes and it probably was.  But after that experience I started thinking about things a little differently about what is in the woods behind us.

[Carolina Mike]

@Teach_Panther I’ve seen many (more than 7) Cougars and Bobcats out hunting! Heck one was less than 20ft from my father & I in some blackberry bushes letting us know by growling at us!!!! That was crazy scary. 

[Teach_Panther]

14 minutes ago, Carolina Mike said:

@Teach_Panther I’ve seen many (more than 7) Cougars and Bobcats out hunting! Heck one was less than 20ft from my father & I in some blackberry bushes letting us know by growling at us!!!! That was crazy scary. 

That is awesome! Never seen a bobcat, though I have heard them. Seen a black bear -- once, which was kind of a surreal experience.  Strange, I see foxes all the time and even had a few run-ins with ground hogs, lol.