More from Panthers.com: Vernon Butler

[top dawg]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Igo claims that from a talent perspective we had Lattimore ranked above CMC but medical concerns knocked him down the board. No clue if it's accurate or not but

Well,  that's  something.  But,  it still doesn't  explain how we ended up taking a second round graded back as a "lottery pick."

And I really don't buy that reasoning,  mind you. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

Well,  that's  something.  But,  it still doesn't  explain how we ended up taking a second round graded back as a "lottery pick."

Who graded him as a 2nd rounder? Media grades mean absolutely nothing and NFL teams don't make it a habit of sharing their draft boards.

 

[top dawg]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Who graded him as a 2nd rounder? Media grades mean absolutely nothing and NFL teams don't make it a habit of sharing their draft boards.

 

Media grades are a guide,  and they do have some semblance of reality,  especially in the first round.  Many football types would not even consider a change-of-pace back in the first round. This is not news. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Media grades are a guide,  and they do have some semblance of reality,  especially in the first round.  Many football types would not even consider a change-of-pace back in the first round. This is not news. 

Show me where anyone notable in the media was projecting Christian McCaffrey as a 2nd round pick post-NFL Combine.

[top dawg]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Show me where anyone notable in the media was projecting Christian McCaffrey as a 2nd round pick post-NFL Combine.

Have to get back at you on that one since I'm back at work,  but don't qualify it with "post-NFL Combine." I'm pretty sure that by then,  many people had heard the rumors that we were actually thinking about taking him,  and that does drive their mocks (if not their rankings).

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

Have to get back at you on that one since I'm back at work,  but don't qualify it with "post-NFL Combine." I'm pretty sure that by then,  many people had heard the rumors that we were actually thinking about taking him,  and that does drive their mocks (if not their rankings).

I say post-Combine because that's when the media talking heads actually get a chance to get a feel for what actual NFL scouts think of guys. Before then, they're largely just guessing. 

[top dawg]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I say post-Combine because that's when the media talking heads actually get a chance to get a feel for what actual NFL scouts think of guys. Before then, they're largely just guessing. 

No,  they know what scouts think months in advance.  Players of any note aren't first scouted at the Underwear Olympics. In any event, a "lottery pick" was a stretch. 

[top dawg]

There was better value to be had,  and Gettleman screwed it up. 

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, top dawg said:

No,  they know what scouts think months in advance.  Players of any note aren't first scouted at the Underwear Olympics. In any event, a "lottery pick" was a stretch. 

You're either mis-remembering or ignoring reality if you think that anyone of relevance had CMC as a 2nd round pick leading up to the draft. 

[Davidson Deac II]

56 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Lattimore did indeed miss some games, including the first two against us.

3 out of 16, I imagine most teams could live with that.  Still remains to be seen how healthy he will stay over the next few years.  Could be the next great corner, or could be another Morris Claiborne (who actually stayed health this past season surprisingly).  

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

3 out of 16, I imagine most teams could live with that.  Still remains to be seen how healthy he will stay over the next few years.  Could be the next great corner, or could be another Morris Claiborne (who actually stayed health this past season surprisingly).  

Yep, you can't truly judge a draft class until after about a decade. Okay, you have a pretty good idea after a few years, but definitely can't judge it based off the rookie season. Kawann Short would've been considered an outright bust. Keary Colbert looked promising.

[Darvinsun]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think Gettleman was a solid drafter. He didn't swing and whiff very often which is important, but he didn't draft many big time stars (as of yet) either.

My biggest issue with Gettleman is that too often he ignored glaring needs due to his philosophy of building teams from the the trenches out. He did a great job of finding us OL talent and fixed our issues at DT, but he drafted too many projects who fit the athletic traits he was looking for at WR and he just utterly ignored the safety positions and then tried to constantly fill those gaps with players off the trash heap and that really came home to roost last year. When you have a bunch of young CBs backed by over the hill safeties with no range, you're asking for trouble and we were and we got it.

Sounds to me that he did more bad than good by your statements. To me he was an average Gm but very close to being a bad Gm ...the Norman thing was the dumbest thing a GM could do especially if you are planning to go back to the SB it deflated the team and I don' care what anyone says playing against Josh in practice helped Cam. The chemistry this team had with Norman here was thru the roof... he believed in his own abilities and talked trash and gave the defense a swagger. Worley reminds me of him a little but he is not there yet and not sure he ever will be.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Darvinsun said:

Sounds to me that he did more bad than good by your statements. To me he was an average Gm but very close to being a bad Gm ...the Norman thing was the dumbest thing a GM could do especially if you are planning to go back to the SB it deflated the team and I don' care what anyone says playing against Josh in practice helped Cam. The chemistry this team had with Norman here was thru the roof... he believed in his own abilities and talked trash and gave the defense a swagger. Worley reminds me of him a little but he is not there yet and not sure he ever will be.

I can't say that he did more bad than good. He completely revamped our both our lines and they were in absolute shambles. That's pretty damn important.

I do think the handling of that Norman situation was probably his biggest blunder as a GM and I wouldn't be surprised if he wouldn't be willing to admit that in private.

[Davidson Deac II]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yep, you can't truly judge a draft class until after about a decade. Okay, you have a pretty good idea after a few years, but definitely can't judge it based off the rookie season. Kawann Short would've been considered an outright bust. Keary Colbert looked promising.

Agreed, and especially when it comes to defensive linemen.  With one or two exceptions, most of them don't really show their stuff until the second or third year.