Changing the coaching and GM philosophy

[MasterAwesome]

41 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Was that with Brissett or Hoyer though?

The problem with just pointing to our record is that when you look deeper, we win against bad teams but lose to the good ones (and one terrible one).

Knowing that, the rest of our schedule doesn't really do us many favors.

 

38 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Is there one for losing to this year's Falcons?

Lol what??  How can you tout "looking deeper" beyond a team's record, then immediately dismiss the current Falcons team as trash strictly because of their record?  Do you see how hypocritical that was?  They just demolished the 7-1 Saints in New Orleans before destroying us...the same week that Quinn handed defensive coordinator duties over to two of the assistant coaches.  Meanwhile they coincidentally have experienced a defensive resurgence these past two weeks?  Do you think this current Falcons team is the same one that was 1-7 just a few weeks ago?

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

 

Lol what??  How can you tout "looking deeper" beyond a team's record, then immediately dismiss the current Falcons team as trash strictly because of their record?  Do you see how hypocritical that was?  They just demolished the 7-1 Saints in New Orleans before destroying us...the same week that Quinn handed defensive coordinator duties over to two of the assistant coaches.  Meanwhile they coincidentally have experienced a defensive resurgence these past two weeks?  Do you think this current Falcons team is the same one that was 1-7 just a few weeks ago?

Is that still enough of an excuse to get smashed 29-3 at home? Do you honestly think the Falcons are that good?

 

Now, if we are having this discussion about the 9-7 Falcons in a few weeks, I will concede that perhaps we were just one of many victims of an amazing hail mary coaching effort.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

Lol what??  How can you tout "looking deeper" beyond a team's record, then immediately dismiss the current Falcons team as trash strictly because of their record?  Do you see how hypocritical that was?  They just demolished the 7-1 Saints in New Orleans before destroying us...the same week that Quinn handed defensive coordinator duties over to two of the assistant coaches.  Meanwhile they coincidentally have experienced a defensive resurgence these past two weeks?  Do you think this current Falcons team is the same one that was 1-7 just a few weeks ago?

They're still a bad team, just better than us.

And as has been pointed out, even when his team hasn't been great, Dan Quinn has owned Ron Rivera.

I put their win against the Saints under the "any given Sunday" category.

I expect them to come back to earth and fade down the stretch, though it won't surprise me if they beat us again.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

A lot of the anti-Cam crowd doesn't want to admit it, but honestly his injury struggles over the past few years exposes what many of us were saying all along - Cam Newton was completely carrying this offense. We have a RB who is having one of the all-time great RB seasons and it's still not enough. Without CMC, this would likely be a bottom 5 NFL offense. We're tied for second to last in passing TDs.

I agree.  Many have accused me of this--I personally think we may have ruined Cam--developing him as a pocket passer would have necessitated an offensive line.  Instead, Cam bought extra time and ran etc.  He was great at it and he bailed us out.  However, this style of play (not his choice) made our offense difficult to predict.  We did not have many sustained drives, but Cam's mobility gave us the long ball--safety in the box, etc. But Cam took a beating---and now he has played very little (well) over the past 2 seasons.  He has a $35m contract coming up.  If we blindly assume Cam will be 2015 Cam and give him a $200m contract, it will take us 5-10 years to recover if we are wrong.

The risk is high, as are the emotions.  Tepper knows risk and understands that emotion increases it.  Cam's future in Carolina is not going to be the GM's decision.  

[Prowler2019]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

What makes that worse for me though is it's by design.

It's why I bring up Buddy Ryan. It's the exact same philosophy. So is skimping on the offensive line because he can run.

If that infuriates people, it probably should.

It would certainly infuriate me if I were Cam Newton. I'd venture to say if by some chance Tepper decides to give Rivera a mulligan next season, it's pretty much a guarantee CN1 won't be here.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

Cam's future in Carolina is not going to be the GM's decision.  

I think that's a very plausible theory.

Does make me wonder what happens to the good will Tepper has built with fans if he parts ways with Newton.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think that's a very plausible theory.

Does make me wonder what happens to the good will Tepper has built with fans if he parts ways with Newton.

I can say for certain that I will turn on him if he cuts a healthy Cam(assuming Cam would be willing to return) for this last year of his deal. 

Now, that said, winning cures all ills in sports, so if we start winning in 2020, 2021, etc.....all will be quickly forgiven.

[onmyown]

Rivera and Fox weren’t wrong - defense does win championships.

But so does creativity, adjusting and most importantly adaptation. Adapting to the NFL rules changes, adapting to yourself meaning learning from your mistakes etc.

I truly believe this is why younger coaches have more success today. They’re more flexible, adaptable and above all willing to try different things even if it takes them outside their conform zone. 
 
Older coaches, and people in general, are less likely to change their ways. That’s not to say there aren’t some older coaches that are creative and adapt, it’s just the ones like Rivera and Fox die out. They’re stubborn, they don’t know how to do something other than what they’ve always known and they sure as hell don’t take risks. And when you have the personnel to go with that mantra (2015 Broncos) it’s a match made in heaven.

But those teams are dying out. A more creative coach is going to adjust and scheme around it and exploit the mismatches vs.trying to beat it head on. Belicheck is a master at this.

[MHS831]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I think that's a very plausible theory.

Does make me wonder what happens to the good will Tepper has built with fans if he parts ways with Newton.

I just get the feel that we are about to turn a major corner.  As a former school administrator, I was advised to not make changes during the first year--allow the culture to normalize and the answers to problems will present themselves as the problems present themselves.

I see Tepper as a hedge fund manager doing his research and waiting for the right time to make the moves.  It will be interesting to see what happens.

[MasterAwesome]

21 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Is that still enough of an excuse to get smashed 29-3 at home? Do you honestly think the Falcons are that good?

 

Now, if we are having this discussion about the 9-7 Falcons in a few weeks, I will concede that perhaps we were just one of many victims of an amazing hail mary coaching effort.

No that's no excuse to get beat that badly, but that had nothing to do with my argument. 

Falcons might be that good if their convincing win against the Saints was any indication...it's too soon to say.  Their defense was undoubtedly their weak point up to their bye week, giving up 31.25 points/game (which would be dead last by current standings)...but recently giving up 9 to the Saints and 3 to us in back-to-back road games.  If they have legitimately fixed their defense, then there's no reason to think they can't actually be that good.  Let me point out again: Quinn handed defensive coordinator duties (notably, playcalling) to two of his assistants precisely at the exact same time as their defensive resurgence so it's hard to call that a coincidence.  Atlanta has had a pretty good roster on paper since the start of the season, but just weren't putting a good product on the field.

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

No that's no excuse to get beat that badly, but that had nothing to do with my argument. 

Falcons might be that good if their convincing win against the Saints was any indication...it's too soon to say.  Their defense was undoubtedly their weak point up to their bye week, giving up 31.25 points/game (which would be dead last by current standings)...but recently giving up 9 to the Saints and 3 to us in back-to-back road games.  If they have legitimately fixed their defense, then there's no reason to think they can't actually be that good.  Let me point out again: Quinn handed defensive coordinator duties (notably, playcalling) to two of his assistants precisely at the exact same time as their defensive resurgence so it's hard to call that a coincidence.  Atlanta has had a pretty good roster on paper since the start of the season, but just weren't putting a good product on the field.

Yeah, it's entirely possible they make a big turnaround. I thought they were probably the best team in the division on paper in the offseason. We will see what happens. 

[BurnHurnBurn]

Talent evaluators instead of a Beat Writer and an innovative young mind instead of some role player from the archaic 85 Bears.  

Football has changed, our franchise has not.  Fix it.

[MasterAwesome]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

They're still a bad team, just better than us.

And as has been pointed out, even when his team hasn't been great, Dan Quinn has owned Ron Rivera.

I put their win against the Saints under the "any given Sunday" category.

I expect them to come back to earth and fade down the stretch, though it won't surprise me if they beat us again.

Well if you put their win against the Saints under the "any given Sunday" category, then let's consider the same for the Colts' win against the Chiefs.  That means the Panthers and Colts have both only beat one team with a winning record, which just so happens to be the same team: the Texans.  You said, about the Panthers, "we win against bad teams but lose to the good ones (and one terrible one)".  Well, the Colts win against some bad teams and also lose to bad teams (and one terrible one).  They've lost to the 4-7 Chargers, the 5-5 Steelers, and the 6-4 Raiders (who are actually pretty terrible and have beaten exactly one team with a winning record: the Colts lol)...oh and then the aforementioned 2-8 Dolphins.
 

My original point was that people have been slobbering all over Frank Reich and the Colts and how they're overcoming the adversity of losing their star QB to achieve some success, meanwhile unironically taking the "I wish we were more like the Colts" approach when our seasons have been pretty darn similar.  We're a mediocre team...they're a mediocre team...let's just call it like it is.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Well if you put their win against the Saints under the "any given Sunday" category, then let's consider the same for the Colts' win against the Chiefs.  That means the Panthers and Colts have both only beat one team with a winning record, which just so happens to be the same team: the Texans.  You said, about the Panthers, "we win against bad teams but lose to the good ones (and one terrible one)".  Well, the Colts win against some bad teams and also lose to bad teams (and one terrible one).  They've lost to the 4-7 Chargers, the 5-5 Steelers, and the 6-4 Raiders (who are actually pretty terrible and have beaten exactly one team with a winning record: the Colts lol)...oh and then the aforementioned 2-8 Dolphins.
 

My original point was that people have been slobbering all over Frank Reich and the Colts and how they're overcoming the adversity of losing their star QB to achieve some success, meanwhile unironically taking the "I wish we were more like the Colts" approach when our seasons have been pretty darn similar.  We're a mediocre team...they're a mediocre team...let's just call it like it is.

This isn't Frank Reich's only season as a coach.