Panthers alumni answer questions about Cam Newton

[beo]

2 hours ago, Bytes said:

Well the numbers agree with me. You can't argue those. I tell you what. Pick ANY top tier QB and compare them to Cam. Again I offered up Russell Wilson but there have been no takers. Heck.. do Brees, do any Tier 1 QB who has been in the league as long as Cam over the same period of time and compare. I'll wait. 

you are going sheerly off numbers, not off film, not off context, not factoring in these qbs supporting casts. looking at boxscores and then going "Oh wow, player X must be better than player Y" is something a 12 year old or someone who doesn't genuinely watch the games would do. in 2017 cam didn't have the best passing stats, but if you put it into context, you realize cam had practice squad garbage around him at receiver, his shoulder was nicked by this point and despite all of the drops and his throwing shoulder being banged up he still threw for 3.3k yards on 22 tds. was his completion percentage the best? of course not, he was obviously banged up and had no supporting cast. despite this, he still threw for nearly 350 yards in the wildcard game and you cannot watch that game and tell me the heroics cam put on despite his practice squad receivers and throwing shoulder weren't elite. 

in fact, every season since cam's breakout in 2015 he's been dealing with injuries due to a horrible offensive line, mismanagement by our staff, and on top of that, usually a bottom 5 WR core. if you put one of your precious golden boys into the situations cam has played in they'd get absolutely wrecked. much of that is on ron, shula, and our GMs for not building a proper team around him until it was too late. do you understand why going off sheerly numbers and boxscores for a player such as cam newton is disingenous now? the absolute heroics cam performed despite his circumstances in crucial games showed how great of a player he was. also, back to your original point about "comparing a qb to him", how do you compare players who have nothing in common? even russell wilson, the example you gave, plays nothing like cam if you watch them. the only thing they have in common is that theyre black and run sometimes, lol. russ by the way, while he did generally have a very bad oline, arguably worse than some of cams, still had very solid receiving options in lockett, baldwin, graham, metcalf, and even paul richardson was a solid #2 who woudlve been a clear upgrade over what cam was working with in his tenure here.

numbers are one of many factors that should be considered when evaulating a player. is production important? of course, but you also must look at what could hamper production. cam went for around 4,000 yards consistently despite his abhorrent supporting cast and being left in games due to injuries (16, 18, 19). cam at 70% with a messed up throwing shoulder drug this mediocre team to the playoffs in 2017, and threw for 350 yards in a playoff loss in which his wrs dropped two open touchdown passes. we saw how well he played with his messed up shoulder in the first half of 2018 in a new, less dinosaury offense,  until his shoulder was aggrevated even worse in week 9. how is that not elite? to me, cam newton is a sad story of a team mismanaging a generational talent at qb, and not giving him help until it was too late and the writing was clearly on the wall. 

[LinvilleGorge]

5 hours ago, Jaxel said:

Coming in to this topic completely unbiased, I have to say that Bytes has whooped a ton of emotional Cam fan ass. 

Pretty amusing to watch this go down.

For someone who is completely unbiased, you sure have shown to have a very clear bias. LOL!

It's okay to be biased. We all are. It's human nature. But don't kid yourself about your biases.

[Jaxel]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

For someone who is completely unbiased, you sure have shown to have a very clear bias. LOL!

It's okay to be biased. We all are. It's human nature. But don't kid yourself about your biases.

Where is this "Bias" I have shown? Feel free to point out any topic I have ever disrespected Cam in, I will wait.

[Bytes]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No, they're literally not. Cam has a 2ypg advantage which is exactly what I stated - slightly favoring Cam. Someone who had decent education would understand that is absolutely not "literally identical".

are you talking passing yards per game or total? I was referring to passing. If you are talking passing, because when people talk INTs, completion %, TDs, passing ratings they usually reference PASSING YARDS PER GAME. just to compare apples to apples so to speak. Maybe thats just me. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Bytes said:

are you talking passing yards per game or total? I was referring to passing. If you are talking passing, because when people talk INTs, completion %, TDs, passing ratings they usually reference PASSING YARDS PER GAME. just to compare apples to apples so to speak. Maybe thats just me. 

234 for Cam

232 for Wilson

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Jaxel said:

Where is this "Bias" I have shown? Feel free to point out any topic I have ever disrespected Cam in, I will wait.

Just remember, you asked for this.

 

[rico6]

7 minutes ago, Jaxel said:

Also the best wide receiver Wilson has ever played with is Doug Baldwin... It's not like they have surrounded him with weapons through out his career either.

I'm torn in regards to Russ, because he is a GREAT QB who has made so much with very little, like Cam. So you won't catch me with a dog in that fight, but Matty Checkdown is where I cross the line in this stupid debate.

[Jaxel]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Just remember, you asked for this.

 

Fair enough, I will own my quote from 2013, sir.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, rico6 said:

I'm torn in regards to Russ, because he is a GREAT QB who has made so much with very little, like Cam. So you won't catch me with a dog in that fight, but Matty Checkdown is where I cross the line in this stupid debate.

Yep. Don't get it twisted. I'm not arguing that Cam is hands down better than Wilson. I'm just arguing that the overall comparison isn't the total slam dunk for Wilson that the Cam detractors want it to be.

[rico6]

15 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Tony G. and Harry Douglas were not on the team when Mat got drafted.  Ryan has been the most sacked QB in the league the last 3 years running.

So was Steve Smith and Olson when Cam came in the league. Stop making excuses for Cam. His numbers are who he is. Your intellectual ineptitude is crystal clear and your emotional clinging to Cam is crystal clear. 

Oh blah blah blah I’m off 2 years for Gonzalez , my familiarity with Matt Ryan’s history to poo on Cam isn’t as great in comparison to yours I’ll admit.

 

[beo]

8 minutes ago, Jaxel said:

Also the best wide receiver Wilson has ever played with is Doug Baldwin... It's not like they have surrounded him with weapons through out his career either.

oh you mean the same doug baldwin who averaged 900-1000 yards a year, made two probowlers, caught 14 td passes one season, and had a great 65-75% catch percentage? doug baldwin would be miles better than any receiver we had here.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Jaxel said:

Fair enough, I will own my quote from 2013, sir.

Hey, I respect that. Sincerely.

[rico6]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Just remember, you asked for this.

 

Nevermind he owned up.

[Jaxel]

1 minute ago, beo said:

oh you mean the same doug baldwin who averaged 900-1000 yards a year, made two probowlers, caught 14 td passes one season, and had a great 65-75% catch percentage? doug baldwin would be miles better than any receiver we had here.

 

Yeah man, that 1 wide receiver that averaged 900 yards per year quantifies as surrounded by weapons.