Rewind a few months...

[panthers55]

8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Whitehead is obviously worse but his point is that using your measuring stick for determining how good a linebacker is(tackles), Whitehead was close to the same as Shaq last year. 

You obviously want and need your LB's to get tackles but tackle stats don't tell the full story of who is a good LB in the NFL and who isn't. That's the point.

Now I would agree with you that any stat can be interpreted different ways but for some kind of comparison we have to use agreed upon standard. And tackles seem to be one. Obviously for outside linebackers like Von Miller it might be sacks, but the idea that Shaq isworth 7 million is not as ridiculous as you and other suggest.

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Jesus Christ. That is what I am talking about. Go back and read the initial post that confused you. 

How can you use numbers for 2 games and justify anything. What I gave you was PFF ranking for tackles by linebackers in 2019 and a PFF ranking for his position in 2020 and a comparison for salary on a new contract for a guy ranked next to him which is the fairest comparison. Both legitimate stats. What you gave me was a very incomplete ranking based on 2 games right. I should be the one using expletives.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

Now I would agree with you that any stat can be interpreted different ways but for some kind of comparison we have to use agreed upon standard. And tackles seem to be one. Obviously for outside linebackers like Von Miller it might be sacks, but the idea that Shaq isn't worth 7 million is not as ridiculous as you and other suggest.

Dude, had we paid him 4 years and $28 million, I'd be fine with that. That's probably at least reasonably close to his market value. That didn't happen. We gave him a 4 year, $54 million contract. You can be coy and point out that he can be cut but it still includes $28 mil in guarantees. So if we cut him next year, he's still going to get $28 mil for one year of likely mediocre play. That includes pay, bonuses and dead money. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

How can you use numbers for 2 games and justify anything. What I gave you was PFF ranking for tackles by linebackers in 2019 and a PFF ranking for his position in 2020 and a comparison for salary on a new contract for a guy ranked next to him which is the fairest comparison. Both legitimate stats. What you gave me was a very incomplete ranking based on 2 games right. I should be the one using expletives.

Good Lord. The point is that we are already two games in and he is "The Guy" for us on defense. No TD. No Luke. He isn't performing like "The Guy." And this is after getting paid. So what is the excuse?

Yes we have 14 games left and he could pull it out of the shitter and be good. I highly doubt that will be the case, however. 

[panthers55]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Dude, had we paid him 4 years and $28 million, I'd be fine with that. That's probably at least reasonably close to his market value. That didn't happen. We gave him a 4 year, $54 million contract. You can be coy and point out that he can be cut but it still includes $28 mil in guarantees. So if we cut him next year, he's still going to get $28 mil for one year of likely mediocre play. That includes pay, bonuses and dead money. 

Again contracts only matter what is guaranteed and as of next year if we cut him the dead cap will be 9 million which isn't bad at all. Most of his guaranteed money has already been accounted for or his dead cap would be much higher. A 16 million signing bonus isn't bad.

Again that is worse case scenario and is common in the league. No one signs long term without guaranteed money. It isn't a great contract but it surely wasn't terrible. 

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Good Lord. The point is that we are already two games in and he is "The Guy" for us on defense. No TD. No Luke. He isn't performing like "The Guy." And this is after getting paid. So what is the excuse?

Yes we have 14 games left and he could pull it out of the shitter and be good. I highly doubt that will be the case, however. 

Get real. We have a totally new staff and no off-season or preseason and suddenly he is supposed to be a superstar learning a new scheme and instantly putting up big numbers.?

You are just making yourself look worse by the post.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

Again contracts only matter what is guaranteed and as of next year if we cut him the decap will be 9 million which isn't bad at all. Most of his guaranteed money has already been accounted for or his dead cap would be much higher. A 16 million signing bonus isn't bad.

Again that is worse case scenario and is common in the league. No one signs long term without guaranteed money. It isn't a great contract but it surely wasn't terrible. 

$9 mil in dead cap after one year is definitely fuging bad. Especially when that could have easily been avoided. If he plays it out and doesn't ascend to an elite status, it's a bad contract. If he stinks it up and we have to cut him after one year, it's a terrible contract. If he's the same mediocre player he has been, it's a terrible contract. 

So, you can reduce everyone's bitching at the time and currently to sour grapes but we are rightfully upset so far. Through two games he hasn't ascended, he has descended. It's a poor start to a shitty contract. Why in the world would you express shock that people are upset about that? Or why would you even attempt to argue that point? 

Why didn't you just wait until he makes the impact you believe he will and then start gloating? 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Get real. We have a totally new staff and no off-season or preseason and suddenly he is supposed to be a superstar learning a new scheme and instantly putting up big numbers.?

You are just making yourself look worse by the post.

Believe me, I am not the one making myself look worse. Your mental gymnastics to try and excuse the poor play and bad contract are probably quite entertaining to the majority of the people reading this. 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Believe me, I am not the one making myself look worse. Your mental gymnastics to try and excuse the poor play and bad contract are probably quite entertaining to the majority of the people reading this. 

You mean to the same dozen of folks who dominate every thread and poo on the team and FO at every turn. Then I am glad to be in the minority.

[Shocker]

Hurney shouldn't even be here.  Nad up Tepper and get rid of his fuggin ass.

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

$9 mil in dead cap after one year is definitely fuging bad. Especially when that could have easily been avoided. If he plays it out and doesn't ascend to an elite status, it's a bad contract. If he stinks it up and we have to cut him after one year, it's a terrible contract. If he's the same mediocre player he has been, it's a terrible contract. 

So, you can reduce everyone's bitching at the time and currently to sour grapes but we are rightfully upset so far. Through two games he hasn't ascended, he has descended. It's a poor start to a shitty contract. Why in the world would you express shock that people are upset about that? Or why would you even attempt to argue that point? 

Why didn't you just wait until he makes the impact you believe he will and then start gloating? 

Again that is worse case scenario not what is likely to happen. And honestly after the Kalil disaster this contract is very reasonable. I have heard about premature proclamations before but your logic is bizarre if you thought this defense wouldn't take a beating. Why don't you stop posting ridiculous evaluations about our players until you have enough evidence to actually make an informed opinion which isn't after 2 games which would normally be the preseason in any other year.

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

You mean to the same dozen of folks who dominate every thread and poo on the team and FO at every turn. Then I am glad to be in the minority.

Lol. Keep telling yourself that.

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Again that is worse case scenario not what is likely to happen. And honestly after the Kalil disaster this contract is very reasonable. I have heard about premature proclamations before but your logic is bizarre if you thought this defense wouldn't take a beating. Why don't you stop posting ridiculous evaluations about our players until you have enough evidence to actually make an informed opinion which isn't after 2 games which would normally be the preseason in any other year.

Worst case scenario? I posted 3 of the 4 likely scenarios and if you have to post that this looks good compared to the Matt Kalil contract, you just waved the white flag. 

Why don't you stop posting ridiculous evaluations about our players until you have enough evidence to actually make an informed opinion, which isn't after 2 games which would normally be the preseason in any other year?

[panthers55]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Lol. Keep telling yourself that.

Worst case scenario? I posted 3 of the 4 likely scenarios and if you have to post that this looks good compared to the Matt Kalil contract, you just waved the white flag. 

Why don't you stop posting ridiculous evaluations about our players until you have enough evidence to actually make an informed opinion, which isn't after 2 games which would normally be the preseason in any other year?

The likely scenario is that Shaq will be here for 2020 and 2021 and beyond. If he doesn't play well he can be replaced without too much trouble and only 6 million in dead cap after 2021 or if we spread it out over 2 years then 3 million each year. So again much ado about nothing. Like usual making mountain out of molehills to suit your agenda. Got to give you credit though  that even when you are wrong you don't give up. (Even when you should)

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The likely scenario is that Shaq will be here for 2020 and 2021 and beyond. If he doesn't play well he can be replaced without too much trouble and only 6 million in dead cap after 2021 or if we spread it out over 2 years then 3 million each year. So again much ado about nothing. Like usual making mountain out of molehills to suit your agenda. Got to give you credit though  that even when you are wrong you don't give up. (Even when you should)

I will give you credit in being the biggest Hurney defender on this message board. It's a hell of a hill to decide to die on but much like the lawyer for a serial killer, everyone is entitled to a defense.