Brady coach-speak, or Samuel to be more involved

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

For a guy that had 11 touchdowns last season you would think samuel never did anything for the panthers according to the huddle... then zod calls him armanti edwards....

11 touchdowns last season??? Is this a different Samuel than the one on the Carolina Panthers? I mean, he has 11 TD's in 3+ years of career but he didn't get them all in one season.

[micnificent28]

5 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

11 touchdowns last season??? Is this a different Samuel than the one on the Carolina Panthers? I mean, he has 11 TD's in 3+ years of career but he didn't get them all in one season.

Your right I was reading it wrong. So what 7 last season?

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Your right I was reading it wrong. So what 7 last season?

Correct. 6 receiving and 1 rushing.

And this increase in production came with a 35.6% increase in opportunities. So, even those numbers were less impressive than the prior year. And this with a career low in catch percentage, as well. 

I have dug through standard stats, advanced stats, metrics and player ratings and they are all pretty much in agreement; Curtis Samuel is far from an irreplaceable player. Quite the contrary.

I am not reveling in this or gloating. This poo sucks. Another draft pick(and worse another WR draft pick) who appears to be largely a bust. 

[Jeremy Igo]

I love it when someone calls me out with fictional stats. 

 

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Igo said:

I love it when someone calls me out with fictional stats. 

 

When you compare him to armanti edwards you kind of deserve it.

[micnificent28]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Correct. 6 receiving and 1 rushing.

And this increase in production came with a 35.6% increase in opportunities. So, even those numbers were less impressive than the prior year. And this with a career low in catch percentage, as well. 

I have dug through standard stats, advanced stats, metrics and player ratings and they are all pretty much in agreement; Curtis Samuel is far from an irreplaceable player. Quite the contrary.

I am not reveling in this or gloating. This poo sucks. Another draft pick(and worse another WR draft pick) who appears to be largely a bust. 

so what's the plan here... i find him to be a fine player... is he all world? No. Is he a bust? I dont think so either...  seeing as he has been under or over thrown with bad qb play for the majority of his career missing countless other opportunity to add to his totals what do you want? 

Looking at what the texans got for Hopkins whats the most you can hope for in a trade for samuel? A 5-7? I wouldn't take that hes better than that. At best he could be a number 2 at worst a role player? A 5-7 wouldn't even tip the scales we cut those guys sometimes without even making it to the regular season.

[jfra78]

5 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

so what's the plan here... i find him to be a fine player... is he all world? No. Is he a bust? I dont think so either...  seeing as he has been under or over thrown with bad qb play for the majority of his career missing countless other opportunity to add to his totals what do you want? 

Looking at what the texans got for Hopkins whats the most you can hope for in a trade for samuel? A 5-7? I wouldn't take that hes better than that. At best he could be a number 2 at worst a role player? A 5-7 wouldn't even tip the scales we cut those guys sometimes without even making it to the regular season.

It's the hands.  Hard to involve him when we aren't sure he will catch the ball.

[micnificent28]

10 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

It's the hands.  Hard to involve him when we aren't sure he will catch the ball.

He dropped 10 on 100 targets last season. And 1 this season on 10.  Par the course.. granted that one was thrown behind him by bridgewater..  i don't think his has are irredeemable.. think hes better than a former speedster ginn in that department. And even he didn't look like a good wr til his late 20s. I just think we can more out of him keeping him than trading him for say a 6th round pick some nonsense.

[theinstrumental]

He started all of last season and they signed Robby Anderson to start ahead of him. They put him in a billion trade rumors leading up to the draft. He has fewer receiving yards than the starting AND backup running backs. "We want to get him more involved." Sure. 

The problem is that he doesn't have any wiggle. He's straight-line fast but he almost never does anything to make defenders miss once he has the ball--that's why he's never been good as a returner. The "gadget" guys who have succeeded are best when they get the ball in open space and can make a guy miss. Samuel doesn't do that. 

[micnificent28]

4 hours ago, theinstrumental said:

He started all of last season and they signed Robby Anderson to start ahead of him. They put him in a billion trade rumors leading up to the draft. He has fewer receiving yards than the starting AND backup running backs. "We want to get him more involved." Sure. 

The problem is that he doesn't have any wiggle. He's straight-line fast but he almost never does anything to make defenders miss once he has the ball--that's why he's never been good as a returner. The "gadget" guys who have succeeded are best when they get the ball in open space and can make a guy miss. Samuel doesn't do that. 

You think he has no wiggle???? I dont think thats the problem. Doesnt look like robbie has much wiggle..hes seems to be big and straight line fast. As a former running back I would think wiggle is in the description. I dont think we see him handle the ball enough to remember the wiggle he has. But if he gets some rb snaps today hopefully that shows.

[theinstrumental]

49 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

You think he has no wiggle???? I dont think thats the problem. Doesnt look like robbie has much wiggle..hes seems to be big and straight line fast. As a former running back I would think wiggle is in the description. I dont think we see him handle the ball enough to remember the wiggle he has. But if he gets some rb snaps today hopefully that shows.

His athletic testing wasn't great in those areas. Low agility score, which blends the change of direction testing numbers from the combine.

He's ranked poorly in yards after catch throughout his career, including last year, especially considering how many targets and touches he had. Here's FootballOutsider's YAC+ metric where he ranked in the bottom 20 of qualifying wide receivers. Here's ESPN's data on raw YAC, where he ranked 150th in the NFL with 153 YAC on 54 catches for 627 yards total. He had one more yard after the catch than Taysom Hill did last year FFS. 

He doesn't have to be great at that to be productive. There are plenty of dudes at the bottom of the FootballOutsiders list with him who are good receivers--Tyler Lockett, for instance. But he'd have to be a much better receiver down the field for that to be the case, and at this point he's not.

As for Robby, check out the 75-yarder from the Raiders game. He dusted two dudes with change of direction moves--totally lost the corner and then immediately juked the safety when he caught the ball. When's the last time we've seen anything like that that from Curtis?

[micnificent28]

45 minutes ago, theinstrumental said:

His athletic testing wasn't great in those areas. Low agility score, which blends the change of direction testing numbers from the combine.

He's ranked poorly in yards after catch throughout his career, including last year, especially considering how many targets and touches he had. Here's FootballOutsider's YAC+ metric where he ranked in the bottom 20 of qualifying wide receivers. Here's ESPN's data on raw YAC, where he ranked 150th in the NFL with 153 YAC on 54 catches for 627 yards total. He had one more yard after the catch than Taysom Hill did last year FFS. 

He doesn't have to be great at that to be productive. There are plenty of dudes at the bottom of the FootballOutsiders list with him who are good receivers--Tyler Lockett, for instance. But he'd have to be a much better receiver down the field for that to be the case, and at this point he's not.

As for Robby, check out the 75-yarder from the Raiders game. He dusted two dudes with change of direction moves--totally lost the corner and then immediately juked the safety when he caught the ball. When's the last time we've seen anything like that that from Curtis?

There is that wiggle u were just saying is nonexistent.. passes the eye ball test.

[kungfoodude]

20 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

He dropped 10 on 100 targets last season. And 1 this season on 10.  Par the course.. granted that one was thrown behind him by bridgewater..  i don't think his has are irredeemable.. think hes better than a former speedster ginn in that department. And even he didn't look like a good wr til his late 20s. I just think we can more out of him keeping him than trading him for say a 6th round pick some nonsense.

Lol. Who is talking about trading him? I am talking about not resigning him unless he turns it around.

[micnificent28]

5 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Lol. Who is talking about trading him? I am talking about not resigning him unless he turns it around.

I'm fine with resigning him. Depends on for what tho.. we did just sign Seth Roberts to be a role player and samuel could do that and flash good play.