So what's wrong with Bridgewater?

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, KSpan said:

Even if the Bears weren't presenting it as a competition having a former #2 pick in the roster is an omnipresent factor. Even if Carolina got played I think Teddy preferred a situation where he would clearly have the job, which to be fair most players would likely prefer.

Yeah, I have to imagine pretty much anybody would take "guaranteed starter" over "competing for the job".

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Proudiddy said:

I haven't distilled any of it down to the simplicity of what you're saying here, Scot.  Yes, I posted a thread titled "Teddy Sucks" and therein I explained why I posted the thread and all of the reasons Teddy was not a franchise QB.  I've offered plenty of explanation over the last few weeks, not blanket statements.  And again, bringing up someone saying a player "sucks" as the literal end all, be all of their argument is a cop out to dismiss the merits of why they would say such a thing.

And it is an easy out to excuse him by saying he's fatigued and beaten up, rather than acknowledging this is who he always was and this is how he plays.  Now, his play is affected by numerous variables such as his surrounding team and staff, but his style of play has been consistent and obvious to anyone who has watched him since he was in college...  but, you are entitled to your opinion.

Take a look back at the original carefully.

At any point did I say that he was previously great, or did I simply say that he's not as good now as he was early on?

[Proudiddy]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Take a look back at the original carefully.

At any point did I say that he was previously great, or did I simply say that he's not as good now as he was early on?

No, but you are implying the impetus of his issues are conditioning/wear and tear/fatigue and I don't agree with that.  It may have an effect, but I don't think it's the reason he is struggling or has struggled at various times throughout the year, especially late in games.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Proudiddy said:

No, but you are implying the impetus of his issues are conditioning/wear and tear/fatigue and I don't agree with that.  It may have an effect, but I don't think it's the reason he is struggling or has struggled at various times throughout the year, especially late in games.

Wrong, and illustrative of the problem.

Some guys on here - including some people that I would normally expect to be rational - take any analysis of Bridgewater other than "he sucks" as if someone were arguing for him to be voted into the Pro Bowl.

He's not good enough to be a starter, but he's also not the worst quarterback in the league or even the worst quarterback on this team. Far from it.

Nowhere have I argued that he's been great or even very good, but you're so resistant to any suggestion other than that he's terrible and has been for his entire career that you can't even accept an analysis that he was better in the earlier part of the year than he is now.

Sheesh 

[rippadonn]

I just can't see him starting next season. Why? To further piss off the fan base?!

Panthers have got to know that fans have had enough.

Either get on with the future of QB for Panthers or watch this bullcrap by themselves.

Everybody except for Joe Brady and a CB coach(who?), knew this would happen.

He doesn't suck, but he's not good enough to carry an offense and NOT better than #1 on any level. Let's be clear on that, then we can understand why this fan base is about to collectively flip on this franchise/owner.

[Proudiddy]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Wrong, and illustrative of the problem.

Some guys on here - including some people that I would normally expect to be rational - take any analysis of Bridgewater other than "he sucks" as if someone were arguing for him to be voted into the Pro Bowl.

He's not good enough to be a starter, but he's also not the worst quarterback in the league or even the worst quarterback on this team. Far from it.

Nowhere have I argued that he's been great or even very good, but you're so resistant to any suggestion other than that he's terrible and has been for his entire career that you can't even accept an analysis that he was better in the earlier part of the year than he is now.

Sheesh 

Lol ok, Scot.  I'll let you have your thread uninterrupted and unchallenged as though your opinion is the gospel truth simply because you said it.

You continue to try to undercut my analysis and argument of why Teddy has struggled with this "he sucks" nonsense.  Again, i acknowledge throwing the phrase out there, but I expect others who are also normally rational and fluent in the English language to know what a figure of speech is, (i.e., not literal).  I'm sure when you, or any other human being you've encountered in your life says something like, "today sucks," you immediately think, "wow, the entirety of their day sucks...  nothing good whatsoever has happened and they hate their entire life and have no valid reasons whatsoever to have said their day sucks."  Smh...

I never said Teddy is the worst QB in the NFL.  Never said he was the worst on this roster.  I have repeatedly said, having watched him since college, that he was solid, a game manager, and an easy guy to pull for, but not a franchise QB.  But, whatever strawman makes you happy...

So, anyway, I didnt mean to take the spotlight off you and your take.  It's all yours, enjoy.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Nothing is wrong with Bridgewater. He's been what we should've expected. He's pretty much been what he always has been. If we were expecting more then that's on us and our evaluation of him. I said when we signed him that the more film opposing teams got on him the worse he'd look.

I almost buy that last part about the film, but Bridgewater leaves meat on the bone, notwithstanding that teams have seen film on him. It's not like he's new in the league. 

As for his conditioning being substandard, I'm not buying that either. He's always been "slightish" with suspect arm strength, the latter theoretically making him look worse when the game is on the line late in the fourth, but I think it comes down to his apparent lack of vision and general field awareness when pressured even the slightest little bit. He has missed reads and throws. He leaves too much meat on the bone irrespective of what the opposition is doing, and irrespective of any type of conditioning.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Proudiddy said:

I'll ok, Scot.  I'll let you have your thread uninterrupted and unchallenged as though your opinion is the gospel truth simply because you said it.

You continue to try to undercut my analysis and argument of why Teddy has struggled with this "he sucks" nonsense.  Again, i acknowledge throwing the phrase out there, but I expect others who I also normally expect to be rational and fluent in the English language to know what a figure of speech is, (i.e., not literal).  I'm sure when you, or any other human being you've encountered in your life says something like, "today sucks," you immediately think, "wow, the entirety of there day sucks...  nothing good whatsoever has happened and they hate their entire life and have no valid reasons whatsoever to have said their day sucks."  Smh...

I never said Teddy is the worst QB in the NFL.  Never said he was the worst on this roster.  I have repeatedly said, having watched him since college, that he was solid, a game manager, and an easy guy to pull for, but not a franchise QB.  But, whatever strawman makes you happy...

So, anyway, I didnt mean to take the spotlight off you and your take.  It's all yours, enjoy.

Dude, even you've admitted to letting emotion affect some of your takes on him.

And again, if you really don't buy the notion that he was better earlier in the season than he is now, go back and look at some of the old posts or at some of the articles that were written at the time.

For one, I found the article that mentioned him negotiating with the Bears. It was from Joe Person in The Athletic, and it had this little snippet included...

And though it’s only been five games, Bridgewater has been exactly what the Panthers hoped for … and then some.

Through Sunday’s games, Bridgewater ranked second in the NFL with a 73.0 completion percentage, a whisker lower than Raiders quarterback Derek Carr (73.1). It’s the highest completion rate through five weeks in franchise history, while his 1,460 passing yards are the second most in Panthers history through five weeks and rank fifth among NFL leaders this season.

But yeah, it's just me trying to make Teddy look better... despite my repeatedly saying I think he's not good enough and he should be a backup 

[rippadonn]

I'm tired of check downs being touted as high completion %. It's a cowardly play at best and that statisticians love it. Total crap. Please stop it.

I saw him look off an open receiver down field to a check down that failed to reach the sticks AGAIN. Can we make that a stat. He'd be the best at that.

[Proudiddy]

38 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Dude, even you've admitted to letting emotion affect some of your takes on him.

And again, if you really don't buy the notion that he was better earlier in the season than he is now, go back and look at some of the old posts or at some of the articles that were written at the time.

For one, I found the article that mentioned him negotiating with the Bears. It was from Joe Person in The Athletic, and it had this little snippet included...

And though it’s only been five games, Bridgewater has been exactly what the Panthers hoped for … and then some.

Through Sunday’s games, Bridgewater ranked second in the NFL with a 73.0 completion percentage, a whisker lower than Raiders quarterback Derek Carr (73.1). It’s the highest completion rate through five weeks in franchise history, while his 1,460 passing yards are the second most in Panthers history through five weeks and rank fifth among NFL leaders this season.

But yeah, it's just me trying to make Teddy look better... despite my repeatedly saying I think he's not good enough and he should be a backup 

I didn't say you were trying to make him look better.  It's a dignified way of giving him a pass for not playing up to expectations.  It's also your opinion.  We have no reports or proof (like say, there was with Cam's shoulder condition), that would indicate what we're seeing is fatigue or him wearing down.  What we have seen is his past performance as a full-time starter, and through that we know there were impressive games, and very, very pedestrian games, often amounting to average, game manager numbers.  We also saw early on in the season both he and Brady through a combination of bad play calls, clock management, and execution struggled...  even when he was protected well through that stretch of few weeks.  That suggests to me that its not due to fatigue or being beaten down during games and now the season as a whole.  Furthermore, even the worst QBs in the league are capable of playing full seasons, even if they're banged up, and there is not a cliff they fall off of from hits and wear and tear...  they generally are who they are, again, unless they are dealing with a chronic condition, such as a shoulder, elbow, etc.  So, I don't find this theory likely.

The importance of the completion percentage has already been shown to be misleading, and considering the majority of his yards came off those same short completions he was piling up, that's a credit to the receivers, not Teddy.  So, although I was encouraged by that stretch of 3 games, I was not impressed per se.  It's a boring brand of football, regardless.

Now, what I do think is plausible is that teams now have tape on the Brady/Bridgewater duo, and they have adjusted accordingly.  Teddy came out of the gate playing bad today, and he finished just the same...  it wasn't due to some nebulous generic idea of him being beaten down.  Teams know who he is and what he's looking for, they know what they can give him and what they can take away.  And its not as if he's suddenly noodle armed in the clutch moments or late in the game...  his arm strength is not a strength ever, but his anticipation is supposed to be... yet, he throws a slant late and 2 yards behind a wide open DJ Moore for a surefire TD.  With a little over 2 minutes to go, he snaps the ball and dumps a checkdown to the RB and TE on consecutive plays before they even turn to locate the ball on short routes, causing incompletions and stopping the clock which further helped the Vikings comeback.  In the 1st qtr, Teddy has a play, looks at the defense, then clearly calls an audible to a run on 2nd and 14.  We gain nothing.  Teddy then throws on 3rd and long and gets it picked off.  That whole sequence was a result of his decision-making, not anything physical.  None of those examples settle on the side of physical wear, they stick the landing on poor decisions, timing, and anticipation.

But again, you are entitled to your opinion.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

I didn't say you were trying to make him look better.  It's a dignified way of giving him a pass for not playing up to expectations.  It's also your opinion.  We have no reports or proof (like say, there was with Cam's shoulder condition), that would indicate what we're seeing is fatigue or him wearing down.  What we have seen is his past performance as a full-time starter, and through that we know there were impressive games, and very, very pedestrian games, often amounting to average, game manager numbers.  We also saw early on in the season both he and Brady through a combination of bad play calls, clock management, and execution struggled...  even when he was protected well through that stretch of few weeks.  That suggests to me that its not due to fatigue or being beaten down during games and now the season as a whole.  Furthermore, even the worst QBs in the league are capable of playing gull seasons, some even missing games, and there is not cliff they fall off of from hits and wear and tear...  they generally are who they are, again, unless they are dealing with a chronic condition, such as a shoulder, elbow, etc.  So, I don't find this theory likely.

The importance of the completion percentage has already been shown to be misleading, and considering the majority of his yards came off those same short completions he was piling up, that's a credit to the receivers, not Teddy.  So, although I was encouraged by that stretch of 3 games, I was not impressed per se.  It's a boring brand of football, regardless.

Now, what I do think is plausible is that teams now have tape on the Brady/Bridgewater duo, and they have adjusted accordingly.  Teddy came out of the gate playing bad today, and he finished just the same...  it wasn't due to some nebulous generic idea of him being beaten down.  Teams know who he is and what he's looking for, they know what they can give him and what they can take away.  And its not as if he's suddenly noodle armed in the clutch moments or late in the game...  his arm strength is not a strength ever, but his anticipation is supposed to be... yet, he throws a slant late and 2 yards behind a wide open DJ Moore for a surefire TD.  With a little over 2 minutes to go, he snaps the ball and dumps a checkdown to the RB and TE on consecutive plays before they even turn to locate the ball on short routes, causing incompletions and stopping the clock which further helped the Vikings comeback.  In the 1st qtr, Teddy has a play, looks at the defense, then clearly calls an audible to a run on 2nd and 14.  We gain nothing.  Teddy then throws on 3rd and long and gets it picked off.  That whole sequence was a result of his decision-making, not anything physical.  None of those examples settle on the side of physical wear, they stick the landing on poor decisions, timing, and anticipation.

But again, you are entitled to your opinion.

Teams have had film on Bridgewater for years, including all of his starts just last year with the Saints running a similar system. The notion that they found something new in this year's film is kinda silly.

Learning Brady's tendencies? Maybe. We've still been at least half decent on offense for a pretty good portion of the season though. And I don't think we're to the point where Brady has becomes that predictable.

And no, Bridgewater isn't getting a pass. The suggestion that this is any sort of apology for him completely fails to understand it.

It's an analysis, and an explanation. It doesn't give him any excuses. Nor does it really say anything good about him.

But still, anything short of overtly saying he's terrible, and this... 

[Proudiddy]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Teams have had film on Bridgewater for years, including all of his starts just last year with the Saints running a similar system. The notion that they found something new in this year's film is kinda silly.

Learning Brady's tendencies? Maybe. We've still been at least half decent on offense for a pretty good portion of the season though. And I don't think we're to the point where Brady has becomes that predictable.

And no, Bridgewater isn't getting a pass. The suggestion that this is any sort of apology for him completely fails to understand it.

It's an analysis, and an explanation. It doesn't give him any excuses. Nor does it really say anything good about him.

But still, anything short of overtly saying he's terrible, and this... 

The Saints have a proven, elite coaching staff and scheme/system that has been in place for years.  They also have a superior talent base.  Which is why the tape from last year is irrelevant.  Taysom Hill is probably going to lead them the resr of the way to a division championship and playoff run, and he's a glorified The Golden Calf of Bristol...  What Teddy did there means nothing, and I doubt many teams were able to learn anything new from that which they didn't already know because he is who he always has been.  I said teams are able to key in now on what Teddy and Joe are doing together here, based on what's on film thus far nd what they knew of Teddy since college.

And again, I just gave numerous examples just from the Vikings game of why this isn't fatigue, wear, etc., and you went right back to the polar extremism well of "if I don't say he sucks or is terrible, you can't appreciate or understand it," when in fact, what I presented were things that actually happened and are verifiable...  i hear you and understand your theory.  I dont agree with it, and have presented why without demeaning or degrading you, or whittling you down to a phrase - which is much more helpful and nuanced than tabloid-style speculation that a young guy with no indications of any serious or chronic lingering health issue just fell off a cliff because he's tired.

Again, enjoy.  

[rah53]

I see Bridgewater as lacking confidence to throw a deep ball unless the WR is absolutely open, rather than putting the ball where the receiver can make a play on the ball. But he was off in all areas against the Vikings, pre snap reads, audibles & that pass to DJ Moore was a big miss.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

The Saints have a proven, elite coaching staff and scheme/system that has been in place for years.  They also have a superior talent base.  Which is why the tape from last year is irrelevant.  Taysom Hill is probably going to lead them the resr of the way to a division championship and playoff run, and he's a glorified The Golden Calf of Bristol...  What Teddy did there means nothing, and I doubt many teams were able to learn anything new from that which they didn't already know because he is who he always has been.  I said teams are able to key in now on what Teddy and Joe are doing together here, based on what's on film thus far nd what they knew of Teddy since college.

And again, I just gave numerous examples just from the Vikings game of why this isn't fatigue, wear, etc., and you went right back to the polar extremism well of "if I don't say he sucks or is terrible, you can't appreciate or understand it," when in fact, what I presented were things that actually happened and are verifiable...  i hear you and understand your theory.  I dont agree with it, and have presented why without demeaning or degrading you, or whittling you down to a phrase - which is much more helpful and nuanced than tabloid-style speculation that a young guy with no indications of any serious or chronic lingering health issue just fell off a cliff because he's tired.

Again, enjoy.  

Tape from just last year in a similar system means nothing?

Pretty sure coaches would disagree with that.

And on the one hand you say you're not boiling it down to something simple and then turn around and claim I'm saying "he fell off a cliff because he's tired".

An NFL season goes well beyond "tired". Ask any player.

I can tell you one of the chief examples that I see is in his accuracy. pretty much all of us complimented Bridgewater on his accuracy at the start of the season. Now, he's off, particularly so today.

Did he somehow go from being an accurate passer to being an inaccurate passer?

You could try to make the argument that he was always an inaccurate passer I suppose, but that would be pretty ridiculous and unsupported by evidence.

So again, why?

I have an answer. Do you?