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DJ Moore graded out as the 24th best WR according to PFF


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2 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Their grades mean plenty, you just have to be smart enough to understand how they come up with them and then apply them properly.  PFF isn't' saying Adams is more dangerous than hill.  All they are saying is Adams has had more positively graded plays (which is entirely possible) and therefore a higher grade.   You are continuing to argue about something you clearly don't understand.

They also have an analytical side that tracks numerous metrics, those might paint a different picture.  Maybe Moore is 4th in the league in yards per route, or most broke tackles or yards of separation.

As I said earlier, a WR might be the most dependent position on the filed, can they totally remove that dependency, of course not, but they can do a better job than just looking at straight stats such as total yards.  Back to the plays in questions there is a very good chance that PFF actually did grade Moore higher, which is exactly what you are hoping for.  

A DE is probably easier to isolate.  On most plays they are going up again one player with no help.  Their PFF grades might be a better indicator how how good they compared to other DEs than maybe WRs are.

The problem isn't with PFFs system, its the best we have for comparing all of the players, its with people who are too stupid to understand it.

 

 

 

 

That’s the whole point of my thread, they can come up with what ever quacky equation they want, that spouts out the grades but at the end of the day there’s a ton of film evidence and coaching decisions that say other wise.

The pff grades might say Micheal Thomas was the best WR last year but the opposing defensive strategy says otherwise. They might say Adams was the number 1 graded WR on there site but the film shows Moore having done more with less.

You can go with the pff grades I go with the tape and coaching decisions.
 

When Bill Belichick is willing to leave the so called number 1 graded WR on a island one on one, while doubling the 18th graded WR one 80% of the plays, don’t you think it’s time to reevaluate how they are grading these players. It seems pff likes to emphasize other non important aspects of the receiving position while completely avoiding more valuable aspects. I can tell you right now Tyreek Hill does more for the chiefs offense than Adams does for the packers and pff doesn’t seem to care for that.

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4 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

That’s the whole point of my thread, they can come up with what ever quacky equation they want, that spouts out the grades but at the end of the day there’s a ton of film evidence and coaching decisions that say other wise.

The pff grades might say Micheal Thomas was the best WR last year but the opposing defensive strategy says otherwise. They might say Adams was the number 1 graded WR on there site but the film shows Moore having done more with less.

You can go with the pff grades I go with the tape and coaching decisions.
 

When Bill Belichick is willing to leave the so called number 1 graded WR on a island one on one, while doubling the 18th graded WR one 80% of the plays, don’t you think it’s time to reevaluate how they are grading these players. It seems pff likes to emphasize other non important aspects of the receiving position while completely avoiding more valuable aspects. I can tell you right now Tyreek Hill does more for the chiefs offense than Adams does for the packers and pff doesn’t seem to care for that.

but your tape is limited, you aren't watching all the snaps

emphasize?  what exactly do you think they they are emphasizing

All they can do is grade a player based on what he does on a snap, you can't grade a player based on what he could do with someone else.  Do you really think anyone at PFF is going to say Beasly is better than Hill, or would prefer Beasly?

If you are expecting their grading system to tell you something different that is on you and the fact you don't understand what they are doing.

Who are your top-15 receivers, chances are its pretty similar.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

but your tape is limited, you aren't watching all the snaps

emphasize?  what exactly do you think they they are emphasizing

All they can do is grade a player based on what he does on a snap, you can't grade a player based on what he could do with someone else.  Do you really think anyone at PFF is going to say Beasly is better than Hill, or would prefer Beasly?

If you are expecting their grading system to tell you something different that is on you and the fact you don't understand what they are doing.

Who are your top-15 receivers, chances are its pretty similar.

 

 

The highlights I posted show every major target Adams had, and you got nothing to show for it.

 

it’s pretty obvious they emphasize possession WR over big play guys who garner more attention by opposing D.

By pointing out Beasley over Hill your pretty much agreeing with me in that the grading system is extremely flawed, you just don’t want to come out and say it.

It seems defensive coaches put as much stock into the grades as I do. They probably see them as a cute internet click bait article.

 

My top in no order are Hill, Moore, Digg, Mclauren and AB. All guys that can beat you in anyway you want.

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14 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

The highlights I posted show every major target Adams had, and you got nothing to show for it.

 

it’s pretty obvious they emphasize possession WR over big play guys who garner more attention by opposing D.

By pointing out Beasley over Hill your pretty much agreeing with me in that the grading system is extremely flawed, you just don’t want to come out and say it.

It seems defensive coaches put as much stock into the grades as I do. They probably see them as a cute internet click bait article.

 

My top in no order are Hill, Moore, Digg, Mclauren and AB. All guys that can beat you in anyway you want.

Their system isn't flawed, I just understand it so I can put context to it.

Its only flawed to those who don't understand it or are expecting it to be something they don't even claim for it to be.

If you asked them to rank the best all around receives their list would probably look somewhat different.  

You are faulting them for being something they aren't claiming to be.

 

 

 

 

Edited by AU-panther
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9 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Their system isn't flawed, I just understand it so I can put context to it.

Its only flawed to those who don't understand it or are expecting it to be something they don't even claim for it to be.

If you asked them to rank the best all around receives their list would probably look somewhat different.  

You are faulting them for being something they aren't claiming to be.

 

 

 

 

I’m faulting them for lack of context. But at the same time I have never put much stock on their grades. That’s why in my OP I said reason 8956 (or whatever ) not take pff serious.

 

You just went out of your way trying to justify those grades without much film to show for it.

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1 minute ago, GoobyPls said:

I’m faulting them for lack of context. But at the same time I have never put much stock on their grades. That’s why in my OP I said reason 8956 (or whatever ) not take pff serious.

 

You just went out of your way trying to justify those grades without much film to show for it.

its ok if you don't understand what they do

As soon as you take time to watch every snap of every receiver and grade them I'll be sure to follow your list

 

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7 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

its ok if you don't understand what they do

As soon as you take time to watch every snap of every receiver and grade them I'll be sure to follow your list

 

Might as well stop following theirs cause judging by the evidence you provided they don’t watch much film either.

 

Or you can always just take pointers from the actual coaches and how they guard said WR. Much easier way to find who’s the best WR that way.

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1 minute ago, GoobyPls said:

Might as well stop following theirs cause judging by the evidence you provided they don’t watch much film either.

 

Or you can always just take pointers from the actual coaches and how they guard said WR. Much easier way to find who’s the best WR that way.

They watch more than you do and its not even close.

I actually understand what they are doing so I'll keep using their resources to help me form opinions about players.

The fact you are still talking about the easiest way to find out who the best WR is just reaffirms everything I said about you not understanding what they are doing with their grading system.  It probably is best if you stick to something else.

 

 

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17 hours ago, AU-panther said:

They watch more than you do and its not even close.

I actually understand what they are doing so I'll keep using their resources to help me form opinions about players.

The fact you are still talking about the easiest way to find out who the best WR is just reaffirms everything I said about you not understanding what they are doing with their grading system.  It probably is best if you stick to something else.

 

 

They watch more players but understand the concepts and what makes said receiver better

 

The easiest way to find out who doesn't know anything about football is if you disagree with the actual coaches in the NFL. I'll stick to the coaches and film you stick to the cute algorithm 

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15 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

They watch more players but understand the concepts and what makes said receiver better

 

The easiest way to find out who doesn't know anything about football is if you disagree with the actual coaches in the NFL. I'll stick to the coaches and film you stick to the cute algorithm 

You are just continuing to prove you don't understand what they are doing.  No where are they disagreeing with the coaches.  You are correct, you need to stick to stuff you can understand.

 

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3 hours ago, AU-panther said:

You are just continuing to prove you don't understand what they are doing.  No where are they disagreeing with the coaches.  You are correct, you need to stick to stuff you can understand.

 

Disagreeing with what? The don’t put stock into more important stuff coaches find tangible thus the grades they give out are dumb.

 

Not that hard to understand, you like to put stock in meaningless grades.

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3 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Disagreeing with what? The don’t put stock into more important stuff coaches find tangible thus the grades they give out are dumb.

 

Not that hard to understand, you like to put stock in meaningless grades.

Show me better grades for all the players, i doubt yo have even watched all of the plays of the handful of guys you like.

Their list is dumb to you because you are looking for a different list, here again you might want to stick to something you understand.  Its ok

Or suggest a better to grade every WR in the league.

 

Edited by AU-panther
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21 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Show me better grades for all the players, i doubt yo have even watched all of the plays of the handful of guys you like.

Their list is dumb to you because you are looking for a different list, here again you might want to stick to something you understand.  Its ok

Or suggest a better to grade every WR in the league.

 

Why do you need grades, you don't trust your eyes and knowledge of the game???

Yesterdays games was a perfect example, Hollywood Brown should of over 120 yards and 2 TD with a better QB but I bet PFF gives Adams a better grade for being schemed open 

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1 minute ago, GoobyPls said:

Why do you need grades, you don't trust your eyes and knowledge of the game???

Yesterdays games was a perfect example, Hollywood Brown should of over 120 yards and 2 TD with a better QB but I bet PFF gives Adams a better grade for being schemed open 

But you aren't applying your eyes to all of the receivers so your list is incomplete.  Also there was a play were Diggs was covered by like the 4th CB, does that mean he is bad?  am I doing this right.

almost every WR could have better stats with a better QB, that's an impossible metric to define for all of the WRs, that why you are allowed to use their grades as a tool.  Even PFF has had articles themselves talking bout how good Micheal Thomas really is.  Their ranking isn't saying he is the best overall WR, its saying he graded the highest for that season.  That is two different things.  Most people can understand that.

and honestly PFF is the one system that probably did give some credit to Hollywood Brown for being wide open.  Traditional stats don't, stat based rankings don't, PFF might not be perfect but it is trying to address the one thing you keep complaining about, I'm sure Brown got a really grade on that play for running such a great route.   

 

 

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11 hours ago, AU-panther said:

But you aren't applying your eyes to all of the receivers so your list is incomplete.  Also there was a play were Diggs was covered by like the 4th CB, does that mean he is bad?  am I doing this right.

almost every WR could have better stats with a better QB, that's an impossible metric to define for all of the WRs, that why you are allowed to use their grades as a tool.  Even PFF has had articles themselves talking bout how good Micheal Thomas really is.  Their ranking isn't saying he is the best overall WR, its saying he graded the highest for that season.  That is two different things.  Most people can understand that.

and honestly PFF is the one system that probably did give some credit to Hollywood Brown for being wide open.  Traditional stats don't, stat based rankings don't, PFF might not be perfect but it is trying to address the one thing you keep complaining about, I'm sure Brown got a really grade on that play for running such a great route.   

 

 

Who says I’m not? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand football.

 

Again go read my original post, idc about their grades, who is graded higher than who, I have film saying Moore is just as good as Adams you have no film saying the opposite. Like I said you and me can go clip for clip instead using grades which is a more sensible way of determine who is better.

 

Also it’s not about grading better it’s the fact that Brown played better than Adams, no if, ands or buts about it. The film doesn’t lie

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Still having a pointless discussion I see. If someone doesn't understand the fact that PFF is a tool to be used like other tools, is a valued resource and used by every franchise in the NFL, looks at tape of every play, and has some rankings that are relatively equal to other analytics companies, then let them be! 

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