Muhammad is talking too

[CRA]

Where do you get your ideas from. How was 2004 a example of too late change. We had guys dropping like flys, had to make huge adjustments every week and Fox had a consistent montra that no one was going to save them so they had to save themselves and backups had to deliver. Goings was the catalyst that year but it was hardly too late. He was the third stringer and got in based on Davis and Foster both going on IR.

As for 2007 we have plowed this ground ad nauseum so i will only summarize. Moore couldn't come in sooner he didn't know the playbook, had never played professional ball and missed all our training camp and preseason. Plus he was the third stringer given jake started and Carr was the backup. He got little to no work with the team let alone the first teamers as is the case on all teams. Carr got hurt and we brought in Vinny because Moore wasn't ready. When Carr was ineffective and Vinny couldn't stay healthy the coaches did a marvelous job of getting Moore ready in less than 2 weeks and he looked good with a very pared down scheme. The fact that he hasn't looked nearly as good since then with more coaching and work suggests how good a job they did getting him ready.

Fox, Davidson and McCoy should be lauded for the great job they did rather than criticized for waiting too long which is patently ridiculous to contend.

In 04 we didn't make huge adjustments every week.....bodies dropping is just the NFL. Half time at the 49ers game while getting beat and having a horrific season Foxy decided he would quit playing passive and just go for it....it worked and people had complained for weeks that with the roster we could afford to play Fox's lame safe scheme. It was a complete change in mindset for how to play. He refused to adjust until the season appeared completely done. We went from playing safe w/o the talent to do it to simply trying to go out and beat people.

Moore could have gone in earlier. Vinny didn't know the playbook at first either. Moore hasn't played since them in a scenario to judge him. Moore w/ a simple plan looked miles better than Vinny did in any 3 games you want to pick from. You could tell in garbage time w/ picks that season Moore had something better to offer.....he does now also as Jake is the 07 Vinny/Carr. Moore will make mistakes but it is better that keeping the 09 version of Vinny in.

A great coaching job is what Belichick did w/ a guy that started high school games and NE got to 11-5. What Fox did in 07 was get his arm twisted and was forced to put in the right guy.

[panthers55]

In 04 we didn't make huge adjustments every week.....bodies dropping is just the NFL. Half time at the 49ers game while getting beat and having a horrific season Foxy decided he would quit playing passive and just go for it....it worked and people had complained for weeks that with the roster we could afford to play Fox's lame safe scheme. It was a complete change in mindset for how to play. He refused to adjust until the season appeared completely done. We went from playing safe w/o the talent to do it to simply trying to go out and beat people.

Moore could have gone in earlier. Vinny didn't know the playbook at first either. Moore hasn't played since them in a scenario to judge him. Moore w/ a simple plan looked miles better than Vinny did in any 3 games you want to pick from. You could tell in garbage time w/ picks that season Moore had something better to offer.....he does now also as Jake is the 07 Vinny/Carr. Moore will make mistakes but it is better that keeping the 09 version of Vinny in.

A great coaching job is what Belichick did w/ a guy that started high school games and NE got to 11-5. What Fox did in 07 was get his arm twisted and was forced to put in the right guy.

You are way out in left field. Losing 13 starters on IR isis not the NFL, it is a train wreck. And replacing guys every week at key positions requires a lot of adjustments and great depth which we didn't have. And Fox doesn't play so he didn't decide to do anything the players did.

As for 2007 again, Vinny was a 17 year veteran who played in multiple systems and your saying that he could have put in Moore who hadn't taken one snap in a regular season game and it would been similar. And Vinny against Arizona looked better than any time Moore played.

The problem is you want to win the argument so badly you just make things up. Belicheck putting in Cassel who had been in the system for several years in is no way comparable to Fox not putting in a guy who hadn't even been here for training camp or Preseason. Again a lame comparison in a vain attempt to win an argument.

[tight lines]

A great coaching job is what Belichick did w/ a guy that started high school games and NE got to 11-5. What Fox did in 07 was get his arm twisted and was forced to put in the right guy.

Im not sure that you can even compare the situation the Panthers were in with Moore ( a quarterback that was a true rookie and had been with the team for a total of about 3 months at the time of his first NFL start) to the situation the Patriots were in in 2008 ( a quarterback that had been with the team for 3 years including 4 training camps and 4 preseasons)

[CRA]

As for 2007 again, Vinny was a 17 year veteran who played in multiple systems and your saying that he could have put in Moore who hadn't taken one snap in a regular season game and it would been similar. And Vinny against Arizona looked better than any time Moore played.

The problem is you want to win the argument so badly you just make things up. Belicheck putting in Cassel who had been in the system for several years in is no way comparable to Fox not putting in a guy who hadn't even been here for training camp or Preseason. Again a lame comparison in a vain attempt to win an argument.

all Vinny did is hit Smitty on a busted play that season. Moore looked better in his 3 starts than Vinny did in his action. I didn't say Moore should have started again AZ though, it wasn't obvious at that point he was a better option. However, it was painfully obvious Moore should have gone in before he did.

your right the Cassel arguement isn't comparable....dude hadn't started an actual football game since high school. In the season before BB would bench him in garbage time and put Brady back in b/c he stunk up the joint.

[CatfanMO]

It's like they're so blinded by Jakes personality, they don't recognize his suckiness on the field or refuse to acknowledge it.

Only attempting 10-15 passes a game is recognizing and acknowledging it. Rather than fixing the problem, they adjust to it.

[SmokeScreen]

Muhammad is very close to saying that besides Chicago, carloina might also be another place where WR go and die.

[CatfanMO]