To Jake Haters

[Sandy Claws]

his situaion at pit wasn't too far off from what we have here. a QB who had some success early on got entrenched as the starter and the coaching staff was too caught up in their starting QB to notice what they had sitting behind him. it was pitt's mistake. flacco did what he had to to showcase his talent and props to the ravens for noticing what he had and taking a risk on him.

i think we did ok but it could have been better.

The situation at Pitt was nothing like what we have here. Pitt had just replaced their staff. He spent 1 year as Palko's back-up then Wanstedt took over. He would have got a fresh start to compete for the starting spot against a QB only 1 year ahead of him. He chose to run from the competition and sit out a year.

[rayzor]

The situation at Pitt was nothing like what we have here. Pitt had just replaced their staff. He spent 1 year as Palko's back-up then Wanstedt took over. He would have got a fresh start to compete for the starting spot against a QB only 1 year ahead of him. He chose to run from the competition and sit out a year.

regardless, was it the wrong decision?

[Cyberjag]

i was. QB was a legit concern. we didn't know how jake's arm would be in the long term. a procedure like that had only bee done twice on QBs before and neither of them were in positions to really test it out. the results were unknown. you don't go into an unknown unprepared.

hindsight is completely fair when judging someone's performance. they have jobs in which big and very expensive decisions are made. when reviewing a job performance you look back at what they decided on and look at what could have been done better. when looking at the way they have handled the QB situation the past several years, the mistakes they have made should be taken into consideration. it is arguably the most important position on the team and i would have to judge their handling of it as poor. picking up carr was a mistake. not starting moore earlier was a mistake. not drafting a QB to groom for the job was a mistake. keeping jake in all this year was a mistake. not making a decision to see what they have in moore is a mistake. picking up jay feeley was a mistake. IR'ing josh mccown was a mistake. guaranteeing jake $20mil (or whatever) was a mistake. franchising peppers was a mistake.

had those gambles/decisions paid off then no problem. since they didn't they need to be held accountable.

using hindsight when judging someone's performance is completely fair and done all the time. if you can look at decisions that were made and celebrate/reward them then you you can do the same with mistakes made in the past.

I'm not saying QB wasn't a concern, but it certainly wasn't as big a concern as you make it out to be. We needed a running back in a big way, and we needed an offensive tackle even more. Both of those were higher on the priority list than Quarterback.

Remember--Jake was working out very well and his rehab was ahead of schedule. Matt Moore had started three games and won two. And there were a few decent FA quarterbacks floating around.

I promise you, had Ryan been there at 13 we would have grabbed him. Flacco wasn't rated as a first rounder on a lot of boards. There wasn't a value proposition at QB for our early pick, and there was at a position of greater need.

Consider this. We take Flacco instead of Stewart. Williams plays well, but with the load we place on him he wears down, and without Stewart pounding the line Williams isn't nearly as effective late in games. In the meantime, Jake is playing well and Flacco is stuck on the bench. Think that we would have won fewer games last year if we hadn't of had Stewart? We probably would have ended up playing the Cards on the road, if we even beat out Tampa Bay for second in the conference.

In that scenario, can you imagine the howls on the board about how we overspent for a backup QB? And if Flacco was playing now, how well would he really be doing in our scheme?

We need help back there, there's no doubt. I think the biggest mistake was putting McCown on IR though, not taking Stewart and Otah.

[rayzor]

I'm not saying QB wasn't a concern, but it certainly wasn't as big a concern as you make it out to be. We needed a running back in a big way, and we needed an offensive tackle even more. Both of those were higher on the priority list than Quarterback.

Remember--Jake was working out very well and his rehab was ahead of schedule. Matt Moore had started three games and won two. And there were a few decent FA quarterbacks floating around.

I promise you, had Ryan been there at 13 we would have grabbed him. Flacco wasn't rated as a first rounder on a lot of boards. There wasn't a value proposition at QB for our early pick, and there was at a position of greater need.

Consider this. We take Flacco instead of Stewart. Williams plays well, but with the load we place on him he wears down, and without Stewart pounding the line Williams isn't nearly as effective late in games. In the meantime, Jake is playing well and Flacco is stuck on the bench. Think that we would have won fewer games last year if we hadn't of had Stewart? We probably would have ended up playing the Cards on the road, if we even beat out Tampa Bay for second in the conference.

In that scenario, can you imagine the howls on the board about how we overspent for a backup QB? And if Flacco was playing now, how well would he really be doing in our scheme?

We need help back there, there's no doubt. I think the biggest mistake was putting McCown on IR though, not taking Stewart and Otah.

QB was and is a bigger concern than what they make it out to be.

we could have picked up a good RB later. i am pretty confident that hightower would have given us the punch that we need. forte would have been a good choice as well. kevin smith has done well. steve slaton...ray rice...all of these guys would have been solid for us. a good QB would have helped out our run game as much as going after the first or second RB in that draft.

flacco would be just fine in this scheme. their offense is a bit more creative but in his first year it was massively run heavy, more so than ours.

i'm more concerned about the long term...not last year. losing in the playoffs was more than one players fault. the whole team failed. i don't think flacco would have been given a chance just like i don't think he would have been given a chance this year.

the biggest problem is that fox has married himself to jake. that holds us back in the short term and the long term. because of that, this whole conversation is pointless. regardless of how jake does, fox is going to back him as the starter.

the decision to IR mccown was a mistake unless you knew there was going to be a QB controversy and you knew that the biggest competition that jake has for the job was mccown. you don't want him to seriously be challenged for the job, you say that your back up QB is too immature and you go out and pick up feeley. is that what happened? i don't know but i do believe that a lot of the decision making regarding QB has to do with the idea of jake rather than what he actually brings to the field as a performer and a lot of what they have done has been to protect both jake and their decision to stick with him.

[Sam Mills Fan]

farve broke down late in the season and by the time playoffs came around was pretty much useless.

we would be in the same boat.

You have no clue whether he would have "broke down" or not. Players don't just "break down". They become injured and aren't nearly as effective when they're playing through injuries. Favre was playing with an injured arm/shoulder for much of last year. Who's to say he would have been injured here? It obviously wasn't him just falling apart otherwise he wouldn't be playing at such a spectacular level this season.

[Argus Plexus]

I love it when people start a "What If" thread. What's the point? poo happens, and this cluster-fug of a team is a prime example of how exactly poo happens. Failing QB, a flurry of bad decisions from the GM, counter-productive play-calling from the OC, and a HC that ignores the pink elephants in the room at every turn.

You could say that things could have gone better, but they didn't. poo happens. Get used to it, cause you're a Carolina Panthers fan. poo happens in the worst way nearly every season. That's just how it is.

[rayzor]

You have no clue whether he would have "broke down" or not. Players don't just "break down". They become injured and aren't nearly as effective when they're playing through injuries. Favre was playing with an injured arm/shoulder for much of last year. Who's to say he would have been injured here? It obviously wasn't him just falling apart otherwise he wouldn't be playing at such a spectacular level this season.

you have no clue that he wouldn't have been. much more likely that he breaks than not at his stage. if he gets injured he isn't going to recover as quickly. and players do break down. they start getting hurt more often and stay hurt for longer periods of time. vikings are working on borrowed time.

plus, there is no way i would ever want to deal with that attention *****'s patented annual retirement decision drama. he'd be here one year and then crying about retiring and then agonizing over the decision to come back after he whined over trying to get released from his contract. that is what he does.

long term he is a waste. short term he is a pain. the vikings are lucky they have gotten so much from him this year.

[Argus Plexus]

Favre is an old fart has-been. They won't get much more from him.

[Sam Mills Fan]

you have no clue that he wouldn't have been. much more likely that he breaks than not at his stage. if he gets injured he isn't going to recover as quickly. and players do break down. they start getting hurt more often and stay hurt for longer periods of time. vikings are working on borrowed time.

plus, there is no way i would ever want to deal with that attention *****'s patented annual retirement decision drama. he'd be here one year and then crying about retiring and then agonizing over the decision to come back after he whined over trying to get released from his contract. that is what he does.

long term he is a waste. short term he is a pain. the vikings are lucky they have gotten so much from him this year.

The Vikings are 9-1 and are clearly the best team in the NFC imo. If Favre wins a Super Bowl this season, are you going to be singing the same tune?

[Argus Plexus]

The Vikings are 9-1 and are clearly the best team in the NFC imo. If Favre wins a Super Bowl this season, are you going to be singing the same tune?

He'd still be an old fart has-been to me. Always will be. Just like Jake. He WAS good, but now he's just a pain in the ass.

[Sam Mills Fan]

How many has-beens are quarterbacks of 9-1 teams, have 21 touchdowns to 3 picks, and are top MVP candidates?

[Phil Dees]

:iagree:

[rayzor]

The Vikings are 9-1 and are clearly the best team in the NFC imo. If Favre wins a Super Bowl this season, are you going to be singing the same tune?

yes.

i think he was too big of a risk. i don't blame any team for not taking a pass on him. it's a miracle if he finishes the season. just like it would be a miracle for jake to not throw more than 20 INTs this year.

so far the gamble is paying off for them but there is still 8-9 weeks of football left (if they make it to the superbowl). that's a lot of time to get hurt and a lot of wear and tear on his body.

[PuntJake]

To this, I say:

:dita: