Bucs defensive scheme? Anybody notice if they were running Zone or Man more?

[AlphabetsEnd]

Or, was it balanced.

The Panther's receivers looked much more open today, and they've done better against Zone this season thus far. 

[Harbingers]

As the broadcast said near the end, they are down 4 “starters” by the end of this game. They had some third stringers back there. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Harbingers

[AlphabetsEnd]

1 minute ago, Harbingers said:

As the broadcast said near the end, they are down 4 “starters” by the end of this game. They had some third stringers back there. 

Well, that showed. When I saw Tremble that open on the second TD, I almost fell over. 

[AlphabetsEnd]

Just rewatched the game and the Bucs are playing Zone, which is why we see open receivers, and why poor handoffs leave DJ and Tommy Tremble are so open on their touchdowns. 

This is deflating as the WRs have shown little ability to get open against man, and this looks like bad D from the Bucs and if teams play Man coverage, we're back to the problem we've had all season. 

 

[MillionDollarCam]

No team runs exclusively man… they’d get annihilated if they did.

In reality, teams are in man coverage 30% of the time this year which means the remaining 70% of the time they are in zone.

Wilks just had a good game plan and they executed.

I’d also argue that Walker looks more comfortable in the pocket than any QB that is on the roster, so having someone that is willing to stand back there and scan the field is a big plus as well. The Panthers opened it up a bit today and Walker delivered, mind you he’s never had issues moving the ball between the 20’s… it’s always been about his turnovers and red zone production.

Edited October 24, 2022 by MillionDollarCam

[AlphabetsEnd]

16 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

No team runs exclusively man… they’d get annihilated if they did.

In reality, teams are in man coverage 30% of the time this year which means the remaining 70% of the time they are in zone.

Wilks just had a good game plan and they executed.

I’d also argue that Walker looks more comfortable in the pocket than any QB that is on the roster, so having someone that is willing to stand back there and scan the field is a big plus as well. The Panthers opened it up a bit today and Walker delivered, mind you he’s never had issues moving the ball between the 20’s… it’s always been about his turnovers and red zone production.

Different teams play more or less zone. The Saints played Man on a much higher rate against this offense earlier this season, and the receivers did not separate. 

I just watched the game, and the Bucs were in Zone a lot, and on most passing plays (so far as I could tell without All22) On both of the TD passes, which accounted for the bulk of pass production and both scores they are clearly in Zone. PJ reads this and is looking for DJ on the first play, and Tremble on the second. That's why they worked, correct play/read vs scheme, and it helped that the Bucs secondary played poorly. 

I would agree that PJ looks comfortable in this offense (even while it's a bad scheme) but I did not find him scanning the field, rather much more prone to locking onto reads, especially looking for Moore. He is seems well suited to the short pass game, but I think when we see him against a more functional defense, not relying on zone with third stringers, we might see the old PJ return. 

I did not see them opening up the offense much this week. I saw West Coast vs Zone.  If you remove the two TDs against zone, there was not much actual down field passing. He played the short game well, but I'm dubious of what he'll do against a better secondary. 

The run game moved the sticks, and opened up the passing game as well. Feel free to rewatch and see what you see! 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by AlphabetsEnd

[MillionDollarCam]

% Of Snaps Spent in Man Coverage

Week 1 - Browns - 17.1%

Week 2 - Giants - 35.0%

Week 3 - Saints - 48.3%

Week 4 - Cardinals - 10%

Week 5 - 49ers - 19.2%

Week 6 - Rams - 4.3%

Our only other win came against the team that spent nearly half their coverage snaps in man. I’d argue that this is more of an indicator of a shitty scheme and receivers not cutting or carrying their routes properly into and out of zones.

I’d also add that sometimes we place too much value on the numbers, sometimes it comes down to winning the battles up front. Both our defensive line and offensive line were better than the Bucs.

[Davidson Deac II]

I think the receivers sometimes get to much heat this year.  I just don't think our passers have been good enough.  Take the TD pass to DJ for example.  DJ wasn't open by much, but Walker took a chance and made a great throw, and DJ caught it.  I am not sure Baker would have even attempted that throw.

[Basbear]

Todd is a man2man lover, but rule of thumb when injuries hit CBs/DB hard, you go zone...I didnt notice what they were doing, I do know whoever 27 is on their team is, should be cut monday. That guy is hella bad...

[MillionDollarCam]

2 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I think the receivers sometimes get to much heat this year.  I just don't think our passers have been good enough.  Take the TD pass to DJ for example.  DJ wasn't open by much, but Walker took a chance and made a great throw, and DJ caught it.  I am not sure Baker would have even attempted that throw.

I feel like I can say with confidence that Baker would not have attempted that pass, sometimes you got to throw a guy open and Baker never showed the willingness to do that.

[AlphabetsEnd]

8 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

 

Our only other win came against the team that spent nearly half their coverage snaps in man. I’d argue that this is more of an indicator of a shitty scheme and receivers not cutting or carrying their routes properly into and out of zones.

I’d also add that sometimes we place too much value on the numbers, sometimes it comes down to winning the battles up front. Both our defensive line and offensive line were better than the Bucs.

All good points. I would agree on scheme and route running. 

I would also seriously agree on putting too much value on numbers - which is why I've resorted to watching so much film and putting plays in context, as the numbers just haven't seemed to add up this season (or really ever). 

I wasn't able to do a close review of the trenches, but I didn't see anything to contradict that. Most of the big gains from the Bucs offense were in passing and Brady never seemed comfortable. 

[MillionDollarCam]

Also, for those interested, we spend 21.7% of our coverage snaps in man.

[AlphabetsEnd]

7 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Take the TD pass to DJ for example.  DJ wasn't open by much, but Walker took a chance and made a great throw, and DJ caught it.  I am not sure Baker would have even attempted that throw.

I'd suggest rewatching it (as I will again when the ALL22 is available). DJ was very open, especially by this season's standards. It was a good throw by PJ for sure (but a better catch by DJ), and PJ reads the zone right away right away and locks on DJ. Same with Tremble's TD. He must have seen something in the presnap reads he liked. 

I'm not trying to debate Mayfield at the moment, but he has attempted far riskier throws throughout his career and while in Carolina.

The difference today was DJ actually has better separation because the zone recovery was slow. 

[Daddy_Uncle]

Looked like their defense was playing half assed on a lot of plays. Looked like preseason reps at times.