A Different Perspective on the Young vs Stroud Decision

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Martin said:

One big issue for me is that I have serious doubts Young can do in the NFL what he did in college. I don’t think he has the arm to be “a Mahomes”. On the other hand I think Strouds game translates really well. And I love him as an awesome pure passer.

I see that--I wish I knew more about it.  In my head, I am pulling for Stroud to "break the mold" and step up while I am in awe of Young's maturity and acumen.

[LinvilleGorge]

My concern with Young is pretty simple. Does he translate to the NFL or is he a really good natural QB whose physical limitations will catch up to him at the highest level?

I honestly think there are less questions about Stroud in terms of projecting his translation to the NFL.

To me, it really boils down this way...

Young: You're betting on his natural talent in terms of his feel for and understanding of the game and you think that is more than enough to compensate for his physical shortcomings... and that he can take the physical tolls of playing QB in the NFL at his stature.

Stroud: You're betting on the good total package. Good but not great arm. Good but not great size. Good but not great athleticism. Feels like the safest pick of the bunch but might have a borderline top 10 type NFL QB ceiling.

Richardson: You're betting that you can help him develop the mental and technical aspects of his game to catch up with his immense physical talent. He and Bryce Young are basically the opposite sides of the same coin.

Levis: You should stop hanging out late night with Jim Irsay and consider rehab.

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Now do Alabama QBs. The best current NFL QBs from both of these schools didn't finish college at that school. They've both produced plenty of NFL QB flops.

 I give Alabama the nostalgic advantage--Namath, Stabler, Starr, Todd, etc.---OSU does not even have a name to drop from last century!  and I think Tua and Jones are better than what OSU has put on the field so far---but not by much.  The greatest OSU QBever by far was benched and transferred to LSU. 

I don't really think this matters much--you have to look at each player--but OSU's lack of success in the NFL is very interesting to me.  (I know a guy who roomed with Art Schleister (sp) for a bit in Indianapolis when both were rookies.  He had some stories--not related to the topic, really.)

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

 I give Alabama the nostalgic advantage--Namath, Stabler, Starr, Todd, etc.---OSU does not even have a name to drop from last century!  and I think Tua and Jones are better than what OSU has put on the field so far---but not by much.  The greatest OSU QBever by far was benched and transferred to LSU. 

I don't really think this matters much--you have to look at each player--but OSU's lack of success in the NFL is very interesting to me.  (I know a guy who roomed with Art Schleister (sp) for a bit in Indianapolis when both were rookies.  He had some stories--not related to the topic, really.)

I think the NFL disagrees on Jones in particular. He's available and evidently no one is biting with a decent offer. That wouldn't be the case of the Bears put Fields on the block.

Tua is a good QB but is he gonna last physically? Watching him get tossed around like a ragdoll should be concerning for the Bryce Young contingent.

[gmonjimbo]

This is a good twist. I like both players and from all accounts are good men off the field. They have both had to overcome adversity with Stroud off the field and Bryce on the field by consistently being doubted due to his size at every level of football he's played. 

I would go with Bryce. I'm impressed with his mental approach to the game and his ability to create plays from within and outside the pocket. His spatial awareness and instincts are great. I think he has the chance to be special.

There is a risk due to his frame particularly potential collarbone or labrum injuries. However, I don't compare him to Tua because Tua reportedly had 5 surgeries at Alabama. This isn't the case with Bryce.

For Stroud, I don't see many intangibles in his play. He never beat Michigan, never won Big 10, or got OSU to the title game. Many are banking on 1 game against Georgia as a gauge of his ceiling.

I think Stroud will be a good, not a great QB, where we will be on the outside looking in as the other team advances to the conference championship or Superbowl. 

[MHS831]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

I think the NFL disagrees on Jones in particular. He's available and evidently no one is biting with a decent offer. That wouldn't be the case of the Bears put Fields on the block.

Tua is a good QB but is he gonna last physically? Watching him get tossed around like a ragdoll should be concerning for the Bryce Young contingent.

As a rookie, I thought Jones was going to do well.  I think BB is not the QB whisperer he thought he was. 

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

As a rookie, I thought Jones was going to do well.  I think BB is not the QB whisperer he thought he was. 

I thought Mac Jones was a 3rd round talent who was floated by elite surrounding talent in college and simply didn't have the physical tools to make it as a starting QB in the NFL. Nothing about his game impressed me. I thought he'd likely make a good long-term backup. Same opinion on Kenny Pickett.

 

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, gmonjimbo said:

This is a good twist. I like both players and from all accounts are good men off the field. They have both had to overcome adversity with Stroud off the field and Bryce on the field by consistently being doubted due to his size at every level of football he's played. 

I would go with Bryce. I'm impressed with his mental approach to the game and his ability to create plays from within and outside the pocket. His spatial awareness and instincts are great. I think he has the chance to be special.

There is a risk due to his frame particularly potential collarbone or labrum injuries. However, I don't compare him to Tua because Tua reportedly had 5 surgeries at Alabama. This isn't the case with Bryce.

For Stroud, I don't see many intangibles in his play. He never beat Michigan, never won Big 10, or got OSU to the title game. Many are banking on 1 game against Georgia as a gauge of his ceiling.

I think Stroud will be a good, not a great QB, where we will be on the outside looking in as the other team advances to the conference championship or Superbowl. 

Stroud's defense folded on him vs. Michigan, but the offense scored only 3 points in the second half when they were leading at the half.  I thought Harbaugh bitch slapped Day in the coaches duel, and Stroud was missing his best 2 WRs, if memory serves me correctly.  But when he because one-dimensional, Michigan took his number.....  With Young, he is predicted to go to the Texans.  In 2022, his two worst games (in terms of offensive scoring) were against Texas teams (Texas, 20 points, and Texas AM, 24 points--games they won by a combined 5 points).

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I thought Mac Jones was a 3rd round talent who was floated by elite surrounding talent in college and simply didn't have the physical tools to make it as a starting QB in the NFL. Nothing about his game impressed me. I thought he'd likely make a good long-term backup. Same opinion on Kenny Pickett.

 

I can see that, but he put up some incredible numbers and was very accurate.  Pickett was a bad selection because (I agree-a backup) but when you go with a first round QB, you have to give him a few years to develop as the starter-where I think you have a quicker trigger without the initial investment.  I am shocked Tomlin won 9 games this past season---

Edited April 5, 2023 by MHS831

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I can see that, but he put up some incredible numbers and was very accurate.  Pickett was a bad selection because (I agree-a backup) but when you go with a first round QB, you have to give him a few years to develop.  I am shocked Tomlin won 9 games this past season---

To be fair, it's easy to look very accurate when you're throwing to future NFL star WRs who are wide ass open while chilling behind an OL chock full of future NFL draftees. This should give the CJ Stroud contingent some pause.

[gmonjimbo]

10 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Stroud's defense folded on him vs. Michigan, but the offense scored only 3 points in the second half when they were leading at the half.  I thought Harbaugh bitch slapped Day in the coaches duel, and Stroud was missing his best 2 WRs, if memory serves me correctly.  But when he because one-dimensional, Michigan took his number.....  With Young, he is predicted to go to the Texans.  In 2022, his two worst games (in terms of offensive scoring) were against Texas teams (Texas, 20 points, and Texas AM, 24 points--games they won by a combined 5 points).

I'm curious where do you see CJ's ceiling or comparison to?

I've heard Joe Burrow, Drew Brees, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Jared Goff, Geno Smith, etc. 

[OldhamA]

9 hours ago, Matthias said:

When I think about it some more, I feel Stroud is more likely to give me Brees/Brady, than Young will give me Mahomes.

For me, echoing what's been said elsewhere, you have to take Stroud of the two.

If you take Young and he breaks / you have to throw out half the playbook then you deserve to be fired. If Stroud doesn't work... you still deserve to be fired for the trade, but at least you might get another job.

I'd also argue that if you look into the prospects - in terms of projection, Stroud has followed a more traditional path of improving every year and earning his playing time. Young is basically a QB prodigy (started as a FR in High School and transferred to a powerhouse High School) who never I fear is just never going to be big enough to play in the NFL. 

 

I'd personally gamble it all on Richardson, but that's me. 

[LinvilleGorge]

35 minutes ago, gmonjimbo said:

This is a good twist. I like both players and from all accounts are good men off the field. They have both had to overcome adversity with Stroud off the field and Bryce on the field by consistently being doubted due to his size at every level of football he's played. 

I would go with Bryce. I'm impressed with his mental approach to the game and his ability to create plays from within and outside the pocket. His spatial awareness and instincts are great. I think he has the chance to be special.

There is a risk due to his frame particularly potential collarbone or labrum injuries. However, I don't compare him to Tua because Tua reportedly had 5 surgeries at Alabama. This isn't the case with Bryce.

For Stroud, I don't see many intangibles in his play. He never beat Michigan, never won Big 10, or got OSU to the title game. Many are banking on 1 game against Georgia as a gauge of his ceiling.

I think Stroud will be a good, not a great QB, where we will be on the outside looking in as the other team advances to the conference championship or Superbowl. 

Fair take IMO.

But damn... that game against UGA against the best D this side of the NFL was REALLY damn good though...

Honestly, I'm just avoiding getting emotionally attached to any particular prospect. I can fully understand the arguments for and against Young, Stroud, and Richardson. I can see all three becoming very good NFL QBs and I can see all three busting. Odds are ATL east one of them will pan out. I hope the guy we draft does.

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, d-dave said:

Stroud: One of the best throwers of the football in several years.  Checks a LOT of boxes.  But is the Georgia game a one off or a precursor to NFL success?  There are legitimate concerns about the Day-Ohio State offense, but Stroud is so much better than the others.  A bit robotic.

I mean he's thrown for 85 TDs, 6 INTs and 8,123 yards in his two years as a starter (with a marginal drop off as a Junior when he lost two first round WRs to the NFL).

It's not like the Georgia game was the only one that he showed out in.