Brains vs Brawn

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

Those are the kinds of things I'm talking about that you can fix.

But can you easily turn a general vicinity passer into a consistently laser accurate passer? Don't think so.

You can minimize the weaknesses of a Brett Favre or a John Elway, but you're never going to turn them into a Drew Brees.

I think you're overthinking the question now though. Physical attributes will only get you so far. It takes brains to actually make them effective. You can improve your use of those physical attributes as well through coaching, technique, etc, but again, all of those come down to can you learn it, the mental aspect of the game. 

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You really need to do this Josh Allen comparison exercise before you keep making these foot in mouth definitive statements.

Lemme ask you this:

Do you believe enough in this idea that you'd support drafting Will Levis?

He's got superior physical tools to both Stroud and Young plus far better game tape from his 2021 season than Richardson had in 2022.

So if his accuracy issues are fixable, why not take the chance on him?

Edited April 5, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Reality is probably somewhere in the middle. It comes down to judging whether or not the accuracy issues are fixable with mechanics or if this guy simply isn't a very accurate thrower of the football. I think everyone is capable of improving their skills in practically anything but some folks are just naturally gonna be better than others and those folks are always going to stay better if they put in the work. It's just a judgement call in every individual case.

That's basically my point though.

I've said you can fix things like footwork and technique but if a guy "simply isn't a very accurate thrower" (which I'd generally chalk up to pour hand-eye coordination) yhat's not correctable.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Lemme ask you this:

Do you believe enough in this idea that you'd support drafting Will Levis?

He's got superior physical tools to both Stroud and Young plus far better game tape from his 2021 season than Richardson had in 2022.

So if his accuracy issues are fixable, why not take the chance on him?

Levis? No. Richardson? Maybe.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Levis? No. Richardson? Maybe.

Levis looked way better in 2021 (enough to generate talk of him going #1 overall) while working under a similar system to the one we'll be employing. Hell, there's even a coaching connection there.

If the accuracy issues can be fixed, why wouldn't you take him?

Edited April 5, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's basically my point though.

I've said you can fix things like footwork and technique but if a guy "simply isn't a very accurate thrower" (which I'd generally chalk up to pour hand-eye coordination) yhat's not correctable.

It all depends on the reasons why a guy is not an accurate thrower. If it truly is hand-eye, that's a problem. If it's because he's short stepping into his throws, or trying to throw off his back foot, or even grip on the ball, those are fixable. Too many determining factors all the way around. If AR or Levis has the mental ability to put all the pieces together, depending on whether or not they've had the opportunity, then they have to be in consideration. 

Personally, I'm less concerned about whether they're from Alabama, OSU or Podunk U at this point. All I'm concerned with is does he possess the necessary traits and the drive to become an elite level QB. If we have the coaching staff we think we do, then take whoever best fits that bill. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Levis looked way better in 2021 (enough to generate talk of him going #1 overall) while working under a similar system to the one we'll be employing. Hell, there's even a coaching connection there.

If the accuracy issues can be fixed, why wouldn't you take him?

He gives me Josh Rosen/Paxton Lynch "I'm too good to possibly fail" toxically cocky vibes.

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's basically my point though.

I've said you can fix things like footwork and technique but if a guy "simply isn't a very accurate thrower" (which I'd generally chalk up to pour hand-eye coordination) yhat's not correctable.

Mayock needed a towel to clean himself up, meanwhile the ball is just spraying wildly throwing against air to his guys at his pro day. Convince me that guy becomes an elite NFL passer. At the time, you couldn't. Absolutely not. I was dead wrong.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He gives me Josh Rosen/Paxton Lynch "I'm too good to possibly fail" toxically cocky vibes.

Honestly, a lot of them give me those vibes but that's probably because I'm old

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Mayock needed a towel to clean himself up, meanwhile the ball is just spraying wildly throwing against air to his guys at his pro day. Convince me that guy becomes an elite NFL passer. At the time, you couldn't. Absolutely not. I was dead wrong.

 

And again, I get that. I just don't know that it's something you can consistently duplicate.

Part of me also questions whether Allen is going to be able to keep it up given that the Bills are pretty much using the Cam Newton playbook with him.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Honestly, a lot of them give me those vibes but that's probably because I'm old

There's a fine line between confident and cocky and you gotta tightrope it to be an elite NFL QB. With some of these guys though, it's very obvious to me they're well into the cocky territory and I just don't trust those guys to put in the work it will take. You gotta still retain that realization that no matter how talented you are you're gonna have to work your ass off to be an elite QB in the NFL.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

It all depends on the reasons why a guy is not an accurate thrower. If it truly is hand-eye, that's a problem. If it's because he's short stepping into his throws, or trying to throw off his back foot, or even grip on the ball, those are fixable. Too many determining factors all the way around. If AR or Levis has the mental ability to put all the pieces together, depending on whether or not they've had the opportunity, then they have to be in consideration. 

Personally, I'm less concerned about whether they're from Alabama, OSU or Podunk U at this point. All I'm concerned with is does he possess the necessary traits and the drive to become an elite level QB. If we have the coaching staff we think we do, then take whoever best fits that bill. 

I've said before that there's generally a reason why schools get a certain reputation for certain positions, but you've got to be able to discern those things...same as with a guy's reasons for poor accuracy issues.

Habits to me are also a big part of it. How many times have we seen someone get coached out of a particular issue only to fall back into their previous bad habits under pressure or adversity?

There are always just going to be some things you can't fix. The trick is being able to pick those out from the ones you can.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

And again, I get that. I just don't know that it's something you can consistently duplicate.

Part of me also questions whether Allen is going to be able to keep it up given that the Bills are pretty much using the Cam Newton playbook with him.

I think McDermott gets it. He knows we cut Cam's career short by several years. He doesn't want to see it happen with Allen. He's been pretty vocal this offseason that he wants to see Allen evolve his style of play and I imagine it'll also come with an evolution of the play calling that we didn't see in Carolina with Cam until it was already too late.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think McDermott gets it. He knows we cut Cam's career short by several years. He doesn't want to see it happen with Allen. He's been pretty vocal this offseason that he wants to see Allen evolve his style of play and I imagine it'll also come with an evolution of the play calling that we didn't see in Carolina with Cam until it was already too late.

Can Dorsey handle it though?

It's like I said about habits. If a game is going bad I feel like Dorsey could be a lot like Rivera on that front.