Fire Bill Cowher Petition

[rayzor]

I guess you could simplify it to Fox makes the playoffs 37.5% of the time.

Cowher makes the playoffs 66.6% of the time.

pretty much.

Have to point out that during the first 6 or 7 years, Cowher was in the weak AFC. The Superbowl was basically which sacrificial lamb would the AFC present to the NFC champion. If the NFC was as weak now as the AFC was then, Fox would likely make the playoffs every year.

The AFC did eventually become stronger, and when it did, Pittsburgh started having losing records, until they got a good Quarterback.

the nfcs hasn't exactly been full of world beaters every year.

and i'll take consistent winning records any day.

[Davidson Deac II]

pretty much.

the nfcs hasn't exactly been full of world beaters every year.

and i'll take consistent winning records any day.

I agree that the NFC south hasn't been great, but its still been better than the AFC during the early 90's.

And the truth is that Fox has been a fairly consistent winner over the past 8 years or so. Only a few coaches (Reid, Belicheck, and Dungy are the only ones I can think of) have been better. If you compare Cowher's first 8 years to Fox's first 8 years, there isn't that much of a difference. Cowher's record improved dramatically once they finally got a QB.

Now, not that I am advocating we keep Fox, but I just don't think Cowher will be an improvement, unless he brings Big Ben with him. I do think that if Fox could get a good quarterback, he would have a similar improvement in his record.

[Kevin Greene]

Actually the Steelers have had good competition right in their own division.

From 1996 to 2005 the Jacksonville Jaguars had seasons where they won 9,11,11,14,9 and 12 games. Not exactly guaranteed wins for the Steelers every year. In addition the Jags are 11-9 lifetime vs Steel Town.

We all know the mediocrity Fox has enjoyed playing the Aints and Falcons twice every year.

[Davidson Deac II]

I said early 90's so that would leave out 1996 and beyond.

I wonder how many Pittsburgh fans were calling for Cowher's dismissal after the 2000 season when they had missed the playoffs for the third straight time and finished a distant third to the Oilers and Baltimore? Probably quite a few.

Like I said, I am not necessarily against replacing Fox, but would rather see him replaced with someone up and coming, with a more aggressive philosphy on the offensive side.

[monstercat]

I said early 90's so that would leave out 1996 and beyond.

I wonder how many Pittsburgh fans were calling for Cowher's dismissal after the 2000 season when they had missed the playoffs for the third straight time and finished a distant third to the Oilers and Baltimore? Probably quite a few.

Like I said, I am not necessarily against replacing Fox, but would rather see him replaced with someone up and coming, with a more aggressive philosphy on the offensive side.

See, that's what gets me. Most of these people lusting after Cowher don't seem to realize that he has the exact same philosophy as John Fox. He may run a few more trick plays, but other than that and the 3-4 defense, he believes in the exact same things. He will yell at players on the sidelines though, which is different, but not neccessarily better. That sh*t don't work with every player. In today's NFL, a lot of these young players will just get pissed off at the HC and demand a trade if he yells at them on national TV. Things have changed a little bit in this decade.

I even heard Dan Morgan on the radio saying that he wants a new coach that will open up the offense, but then he named Cowher as the guy he wants to do it.

[Brooklyn Bully]

Dear god, arguing that Cowher isn't as good because the AFC fielded a weaker team in the Super Bowl for a few years, and because he played in a weaker division?

Just stop. Please.

[monstercat]

Dear god, arguing that Cowher isn't as good because the AFC fielded a weaker team in the Super Bowl for a few years, and because he played in a weaker division?

Just stop. Please.

That division did suck for a lot of those years. He almost never had more than one other team that was any real competition in any given season. Nobody is saying that Fox is better because of that though. It's just that there isn't very much difference between the two, plus the Steelers were a well established and well run organization before Cowhere got there. The Panthers were upstarts with a terrible team that had yet to find an identity when Fox arrived, so it's apples and oranges anyway. The bottom line, is that there is no guarantee whatsover that Cowher would be a big upgrade, but is is guaranteed that he won't be bringing anymore of a wide open offense than Fox does.

[Sloth]

I think it is a mistake to lump the "Fire Fox" contingent in with the "Hire Cowher" contingent just like it is to lump the haters in with the realists. Fox hasn't gotten the job done in the year when everything was in place. This was supposed to be the year. This is why we traded draft picks, this is why we wrecked the cap......and Fox ball gets us a 7-9 or 8-8 record with nothing to play for in December. Not acceptable.

Good post.

[Davidson Deac II]

Dear god, arguing that Cowher isn't as good because the AFC fielded a weaker team in the Super Bowl for a few years, and because he played in a weaker division?

Just stop. Please.

No worse than arguing that Cowher is better because he won games when the Soviet Union still existed. If we are going to hire coaches because of their success 20 years ago, lets hire Jimmy Johnson.

[Brooklyn Bully]

No worse than arguing that Cowher is better because he won games when the Soviet Union still existed. If we are going to hire coaches because of their success 20 years ago, lets hire Jimmy Johnson.

If you're a good coach, you're a good coach. Period. But to say one is better than the other because of the division they played in and the conference they played in sucked, is dumb.

[Brooklyn Bully]

That division did suck for a lot of those years. He almost never had more than one other team that was any real competition in any given season. Nobody is saying that Fox is better because of that though. It's just that there isn't very much difference between the two, plus the Steelers were a well established and well run organization before Cowhere got there. The Panthers were upstarts with a terrible team that had yet to find an identity when Fox arrived, so it's apples and oranges anyway. The bottom line, is that there is no guarantee whatsover that Cowher would be a big upgrade, but is is guaranteed that he won't be bringing anymore of a wide open offense than Fox does.

I'n not in the camp that says Cowher is better. I'm in the camp that wants a breath of fresh air from a good coach. You'll get that with Cowher.

And wow, his division was piss poor, worst in the history of the NFL. Big deal. He still had had to play ten other games against teams not in his division each year. And as mentioned before, the Saints, Falcons and Bucs haven't exactly been world beaters since Fox's arrival. They've all had a good year here and there but have never been constant.

Again, I'm not knocking Fox AT ALL. I just think we can obtain the same amount of success with Cowher. Simple as that. But I think having a fresh face (and by fresh, I mean "not Fox", not "some young scrub") can give us an extra push.

[monstercat]

If you're a good coach, you're a good coach. Period. But to say one is better than the other because of the division they played in and the conference they played in is dumb.

Once again, nobody is saying that Cowher is a bad coach because he was in a crappy division for a while. People are only saying that it is part of the equation, just like the Steelers organization is part of the equation. Hell, they have only had 3 coaches and they were all pretty darn successful. You can easily make the argument that Cowher would not have been nearly as successful with a different NFL franchise, because he would have been fired long before he had a chance to win a Superbowl.

[Brooklyn Bully]

Once again, nobody is saying that Cowher is a bad coach because he was in a crappy division for a while. People are only saying that it is part of the equation, just like the Steelers organization is part of the equation. Hell, they have only had 3 coaches and they were all pretty darn successful. You can easily make the argument that Cowher would not have been nearly as successful with a different NFL franchise, because he would have been fired long before he had a chance to win a Superbowl.

And if Foxy takes another job, he could go 0-16. What's your point here? We all know there are tons and tons of things that go into how successful a team and an organization actually is. But the bottom line about both Fox and Cowher is that they are both amazing coaches who know what the hell they're doing. But as with Cowher and the Steelers, and Fox here...it can go stale. Don't let the rich history of the Steelers blind you. Cowher CAN be a winner here, just as Fox CAN take us to a ring if he stays. I just think one has a better chance at doing so.

[PuntJake]

I think it is a mistake to lump the "Fire Fox" contingent in with the "Hire Cowher" contingent

Fire Fox

Hire Shanahan