why all the flip flopping on john fox?

[panthers55]

Yeah, "foxball" as you call it, is actually just Smashmouth football that has been used for 40 years by some of the greats out there. I'd attribute Madden with more credit for this formula than Fox.

And to that point, the formula isn't the problem. The problem is how Fox uses the formula. Like sticking with Delhomme for 11 games despite repeated performance flaws. Or sticking with DeShawn Foster for all of 2007 despite his performance flaws.

The reason Fox hasn't had back to back winning seasons is because he is inflexible, and conservative with his player roster and play calling. Obvious problems with the team are not addressed in a timely manner and adjustments are made way too late to save a season or even a game.

Though I hate him, Bill Belichick is a prototype of how a coach should manage his roster, both during the season and off-season. If Tom Brady threw 8 picks in two games, you'd see him warming the bench. Not being hailed as "our best chance to win".

Andy Reid is also another great coach in this respect. McNabb played like ass in 2008, and started acting like an ass, so Reid benched him. Their season was salvaged and they made it to the NFC Championship game. Now, a year later, the team is in the playoffs and has drawn favorites in some pools to go all the way.

So the problem isn't how Fox describes what he wants to do with a team. It's how he does it.

First of all how many Andy reids and Bill Belichecks do you think are out there? Not many.

If you look back at our average seasons you notice one or more element always lacking. We typically had injuries to multiple key players like in 2004, injuries to our quarterback (end of 2006 and 2007) or poor quarterback play like in 2009.Poor defense in 2004, 2007 and the first half of this year.

That isn't to make excuses just state the reality. This year at the end we actually played Fox ball -Good running, good defense and a passing offense which was adequate and didn't turn over the ball. When was the last time we actually had the same formula? 2003. In 2005 we had no running game and in 2008 we had an inconsistent defense.

If we actually play Fox ball next year based on how we finished this year we will surely make the playoffs no matter who we play.

If you want to criticize Fox then point out how he frankly isn't able to get the defense and offense to both play well at the same time. When we do that we typically win.

[MadHatter]

I am more nervous about promoting from within (don't really like Davidson, Meeks, or Skipper as HC....unproven) than I am keeping Fox.

[Guild]

I am more nervous about promoting from within (don't really like Davidson, Meeks, or Skipper as HC....unproven) than I am keeping Fox.

I am more nervous about any result than keeping Fox.

That said I don't necessarily say we should do everything we can to keep him. Especially if that means extending him for a long period of time.

[blackcatgrowl]

If you want to criticize Fox then point out how he frankly isn't able to get the defense and offense to both play well at the same time.

Err... I kind of did. Actually, its more like he just can't keep the Offense playing well period. But the point is similarly made.. :skep:

As far as the "Andy Reid" and "Bill Belichick" comparisons... There are lots of coaches out there that might be ready to become another one of these two. Clearly Fox isn't one of them. If we stay with Fox, our elite talent (best RB tandem in the game), will be squandered by a non-elite coach.

[panthers55]

Err... I kind of did. Actually, its more like he just can't keep the Offense playing well period. But the point is similarly made.. :skep:

As far as the "Andy Reid" and "Bill Belichick" comparisons... There are lots of coaches out there that might be ready to become another one of these two. Clearly Fox isn't one of them. If we stay with Fox, our elite talent (best RB tandem in the game), will be squandered by a non-elite coach.

There are alot of coaches out there. How many will become the next Andy Reid of Bill Belicheck won't be known untill they can win consistently for a decade. Most coaches don't last that long. We do have 2 great running backs but at the end of the year we won games with perhaps 3 elite players on the team, Stewart, Peppers and Beason. I don't agree that we have all these elite players and frankly a hallmark of Fox's teams is often doing well with situational players and not elite guys. We actually have a long history of taking other team's retreads and castoffs and making them much better in our system. Fox isn't elite but neither are at least 25 coaches in the league at this point. He is surely in good company.

[blackcatgrowl]

Fox isn't elite but neither are at least 25 coaches in the league at this point. He is surely in good company.

Sounds like, as a fan, you're ready to settle for mediocre. Well, that's your prerogative.

Personally, I want to see a coach/GM come in that can go all the way and win it, or at least consistently put us in the playoffs.

[err456]

First of all how many Andy reids and Bill Belichecks do you think are out there? Not many.

If you look back at our average seasons you notice one or more element always lacking. We typically had injuries to multiple key players like in 2004, injuries to our quarterback (end of 2006 and 2007) or poor quarterback play like in 2009.Poor defense in 2004, 2007 and the first half of this year.

That isn't to make excuses just state the reality. This year at the end we actually played Fox ball -Good running, good defense and a passing offense which was adequate and didn't turn over the ball. When was the last time we actually had the same formula? 2003. In 2005 we had no running game and in 2008 we had an inconsistent defense.

If we actually play Fox ball next year based on how we finished this year we will surely make the playoffs no matter who we play.

If you want to criticize Fox then point out how he frankly isn't able to get the defense and offense to both play well at the same time. When we do that we typically win.

I could live with a year of us playing like we did at the end of this season.

[Insizion]

Ill say it screw FOX. How can i put this he lacks intestinal fortitude. Other words he has no balls. Should have benched Jake atleast early this season (shouldnt have been let go this offseason). Cost us the playoffs. Never 2 consecutive seasons winning HUH? ridiculous. Coaches get fired for not making the SuperBowl after some many organizzations. Fire Davidson too dude doesnt no how to run with Smith in our line up doesnt get him touches enough. Granted he got our running game on point but that is becasue he is a glorified O-Line (thats what he should be doing again) COACH. Richardson needs to pull the trigger and cant........

[panthers55]

Sounds like, as a fan, you're ready to settle for mediocre. Well, that's your prerogative.

Personally, I want to see a coach/GM come in that can go all the way and win it, or at least consistently put us in the playoffs.

Telling you the reality of the situation is a far cry from settling for mediocrity. I guess you saw that Coughlin was going to win the Superbowl in 2007 after almost losing his job the year before. I guess you knew that Tomlin would win the superbowl in 2008 in his second year. Who is going to win it this year from all these choices since you apparently can tell who has the potential to go all the way.

No one wants mediocrity especially Richardson but to assume you have the answers is ludicrous. We already tried to bring in a Superbowl winning coach who consistently won in the playoffs. How did that work out??

You don't want to win any worse than the rest of us, some of us are just more realistic than you are.

[Scutty]

The Panthers end to the season threw my thoughts under a bus regarding Fox. Now I don't know what to think.

[AceMan]

Telling you the reality of the situation is a far cry from settling for mediocrity.

Let's look at the reality, shall we?

Fox can't field a consistent team. One year it is defensive troubles, next year offensive troubles, then back to defense, then back to offense.

There is a reason why JR does not endorse John Fox for next year and it ain't about money.

The problem is how Fox uses the formula. Like sticking with Delhomme for 11 games despite repeated performance flaws. Or sticking with DeShawn Foster for all of 2007 despite his performance flaws.

The reason Fox hasn't had back to back winning seasons is because he is inflexible, and conservative with his player roster and play calling. Obvious problems with the team are not addressed in a timely manner and adjustments are made way too late to save a season or even a game.

Couldn't have said it better.

If you look back at our average seasons you notice one or more element always lacking. We typically had injuries to multiple key players like in 2004, injuries to our quarterback (end of 2006 and 2007) or poor quarterback play like in 2009.Poor defense in 2004, 2007 and the first half of this year.

That isn't to make excuses just state the reality. This year at the end we actually played Fox ball -Good running, good defense and a passing offense which was adequate and didn't turn over the ball. When was the last time we actually had the same formula? 2003. In 2005 we had no running game and in 2008 we had an inconsistent defense.

I'mma stop you right here panthers55, you ARE making too many excuses and looking too far on the bright side for next year. (Which would match your mantra anyway :biggrin5:)

Let's analyze the past 5 seasons.

2005 - 11-5 - We go to the Conference championship. Great season, right? Right...but one thing people would tell you is that Stephen Davis shouldn't have been the starting RB. Good goalline RB (12 TDs), but not much else. He was on his last legs. Luckily, Davis got hurt and Foster go this chance. Anyway, we lose to the Seahawks...injury to Deshaun Foster played a big factor, but anyone could see that the main problem was Seattle's D taking away Steve Smith and Jake Delhomme not being able to do anything else.

So your answer to no running game in 2005 - John Fox held on to S. Davis too long.

2006 - 8-8 - Biggest culprit that year was offensive gameplanning. Too damn conservative. Early injuries hurt us as well. Dan Henning becomes the scapegoat.

So your answer to QB injury - Bad offensive playcalling mixed with Delhomme playing up and down anyway. I'll give you that though.

2007 - 7-9 - Injury to Jake, David Carr sucks, Matt Moore's short emergence. DeAngelo Williams ROBBED, definitely should have been starting this year. Also, we realize...WTF?! We kept the same conservative-@rse playcalling while Henning was doing creative offensive plays over in Miami..wait a sec...it couldn't be Fox...could it?

So your answer to QB injury - We signed David Carr just for this occassion, but it ended up being a bad signing. But, the biggest culprit...5 game losing streak from Week 8-12...Defensive troubles and sticking with failing veterans...hmmm where would I see that again?

Now this is when Fox began to get his head called for firing? Why? Because of his questionable calls! It's not talent, it is Fox! It's Do or Die for Fox now.

2008 - Fox makes a gutsy call in the draft. It pays off, we go 12-4. But however, anyway would tell you that Delhomme was falling off badly during the 2nd half of the season. Do we make any adjustments? Nooo...as long as we're winning, it's fine. We have EVERYTHING in our favor for the playoffs...and what happens? Arizona pulls a card from the 2005 Seattle playoff game and Jake Delhomme BOMBs.

Your answer to inconsistent defense - Yes, but the biggest problem was horrible QB play near the end of the season.

So what do we do...we give this douche a 5-year extension in order to save 3 mil. in cap. Now I know many people were hoping for QB competition in the offseason, well that contract eliminated it.

2009 - And this past offseason. Inconsistent QB play? Let's be real...it was Jake Delhomme...it wasn't inconsistent defense at the beginning either. The defense only played bad at Atlanta...Delhomme gave the Eagles the game and the defense played good against Dallas while our offense gave them every opportunity to come back in the game. We didn't start playing "Foxball" until Matt Moore came in. That is FACT. Biggest culprit this season was Fox sticking with a failing veteran and playcalling...where have I seen this before?

Now while the past 4 games got many of you flip-flopping yet excited for next season, you fail to look at the reality of the situation.

The answer why we were able to finally able to start playing good football is NOT being endorsed by our staff(Matt Moore). Yet, the biggest reason why our season was tanked IS being endorsed!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/26/hurney-says-delhomme-will-be-back/

Hello! Everyone knows that basically Hurney = Fox. Wake up! Politics and Loyalty WILL come in to play next season just like it did this season. Remember, JAKE DELHOMME NEVER GOT BENCHED! He was injured. If Delhomme never got injured, we would have never seen what Matt Moore can do.

Now, the normal 'reply' would be that Jake would be a back-up and Fox will keep a tight LEASH on Delhomme anyway. First, NFL Logic would tell you that paying 13 mil for a back-up with NO FUTURE on the team is incredibly stupid. But, when has Fox EVER turned a old veteran starter with waning skills into a back-up next year on this team? They either started or was cut! Rodney Peak is the only exception I can think of and he didn't have the trust or contract obligations that Delhomme had. Also, Fox was still trying to make a name for himself then. You think John Fox is going to keep a tight leash on a guy that he said "gave him the best chance to win" with 4 years on his contract with a young guy who Fox purposely buried in the depth chart and will be a RFA. Get real. Back to veterans...

Mike Wahle? Cut. Ricky Manning Jr.? Let go. Stephen Davis. Cut. Ken Lucas. Cut. Justin Hartwig. Cut. Mike Rucker. Cut.

So while I'm sitting here thinking that Delhomme will definitely get cut. Fox and Hurney have already stated they endorse Delhomme for next year and he still has a future with this team while saying nothing on Matt Moore except that he has played well. So while you guys can focus on the past 4 or 5 games and think Fox will continue with that same momentum and start Moore. I'mma look at Fox's track record for the past 5 seasons and the actual situation at hand. I wouldn't be surprised if our defense falls off next year as well. We stand a damn good chance of losing Peppers and E.Brown might prove NOT to be starting material. You guys need to focus on the first 11 games of this past season and why Fox didn't make the much-needed and OBVIOUS adjustments.

Fox just can't field a consistent team. Let this bum go! Like Larry Fitzgerald said in 2008, John Fox is going to stay the same.

[SMACKDAB]

2005 - 11-5 - We go to the Conference championship. Great season, right? Right...but one thing people would tell you is that Stephen Davis shouldn't have been the starting RB. Good goalline RB (12 TDs), but not much else. He was on his last legs. Luckily, Davis got hurt and Foster go this chance. Anyway, we lose to the Seahawks...injury to Deshaun Foster played a big factor, but anyone could see that the main problem was Seattle's D taking away Steve Smith and Jake Delhomme not being able to do anything else.

So your answer to no running game in 2005 - John Fox held on to S. Davis too long.

Not to mention he put Davis on the IR list. Davis could have surely helped us, and was healthy well before the playoff's, and could have helped us tremendously. Especially after Goings got his bell rung, or maybe that would have never happened to Nick had Davis not been on IR, healthy.

[panthers55]

Let's look at the reality, shall we?

Fox can't field a consistent team. One year it is defensive troubles, next year offensive troubles, then back to defense, then back to offense.

There is a reason why JR does not endorse John Fox for next year and it ain't about money.

That is the not the reason I don't endorse him coming back. But you could have stopped here. After this much is inaccurate and supposition. Up to now you are correct, he is inconsistent.

2005 - 11-5 - We go to the Conference championship. Great season, right?......

So your answer to no running game in 2005 - John Fox held on to S. Davis too long.

No too simplistic. Davis wasn't the back of old but he did score more regularly in the redzone than Foster. Plus Foster didn't run that well either. Davis had a poor 3.1 ypc but Foster was only 4.3. Compare that to this year or where Williams and Stewart averaged 4.8 yards a carry and you know why we didn't a running attack in 2005. We ran the balll 487 times but only got 1679 yards. Compare that to 2008 where we ran only 20 times more but got 2437 yards. Davis was part of the problem but Foster was never the solution.

2006 - 8-8 - Biggest culprit that year was offensive gameplanning. Too damn conservative. Early injuries hurt us as well. Dan Henning becomes the scapegoat.

So your answer to QB injury - Bad offensive playcalling mixed with Delhomme playing up and down anyway. I'll give you that though.

Again wrong again. One difference between 2005 and 2006 was our offense was less efficient with fewer thrid down conversions. We had poorer field position and scored less often. But the defense was also a culprit. We couldn't get off the field, we went from a plus 16 to a minus 5 in turnovers. the other team converted 11 of 14 4th downs on us. And as we all know lost our quarterback in a critical stretch of December and went from a contender to a pretender.

2007 - 7-9 - Injury to Jake, David Carr sucks, Matt Moore's short emergence. DeAngelo

Now this is when Fox began to get his head called for firing? Why? Because of his questionable calls! It's not talent, it is Fox! It's Do or Die for Fox now.

First of all I wasn't a Carr fan at all. Secondly you need to go back and do some research about who started from week to week. Our problem was even with Vinny and Carr they rarely started 2 weeks in a row. Davidson had to keep simplifying the plan and dumbing it down because he had a different guy in there every week. Moore had no experience and wasn't here for training camp or preseason. Vinny came off the couch on Wednesday and started on Sunday. And the whole Williams things has been discussed ad nauseum. Truth is with all the problems we had going 7-9 was amazing and Davidson and McCoy did a great job given the weekly changes at quarterback and schooling a very green rookie. Not to mention a defense that was pretty absysmal.

2008 - Fox makes a gutsy call in the draft. It pays off, we go 12-4.....

Your answer to inconsistent defense - Yes, but the biggest problem was horrible QB play near the end of the season.

So what do we do...we give this douche a 5-year extension in order to save 3 mil. in cap. Now I know many people were hoping for QB competition in the offseason, well that contract eliminated it.

No one will deny Jake was poor at times in 2008. Most chalked that up to difficulty getting comfortable after the bye and sitting for 2 weeks without any practice to rest his newly repaired arm with the bye in the playoffs and the stats bore it out. He was inconsistent in 2008 but leading up to the playoff debacle he had some of his best games. And our defense was terrible. We gave up almost 30 points per game over the second half of the season. The offense was the only thing that saved us. And if you will do some rsearch you will find that that 5 year contract was never meant to be fulfilled. We paid him the same money we were going to have to this year anyway but saved 3 million in cap space. We gave ourselves the option to pay him 13 million in 2010 and walk away after next year which is what we will likely do. The contract actually will cost us 13 million more than if we had let him play out his contract this year since he was going to make the money this year anyway. Sure a bad choice now but not the disaster you make it out to be given 2010 will be uncapped and it won't hurt us getting other players. The only crying should be Richardson.

2009 - And this past offseason. Inconsistent QB play? Let's be real...it was Jake Delhomme...it wasn't inconsistent defense at the beginning either. The defense only played bad at Atlanta...Delhomme gave the Eagles the game and the defense played good against Dallas while our offense gave them every opportunity to come back in the game.

Fox just can't field a consistent team. Let this bum go! Like Larry Fitzgerald said in 2008, John Fox is going to stay the same.

Jake will only start if Moore does what he did in 2007- regressed in the offseason. And if he does it is his fault. No one buried Moore he did it on his own. Right now it is his job to win or lose. Hurney and Fox aren't going to throw Delhomme under the bus just like they don't anybody but that doesn't mean they aren't going to give Moore a chance. And your whole NFl argument is lame. He is getting paid if he plays or sits. Why cut a guy you are going to pay 13 million too anyway. That would be stupid.

You want Delhomme cut to ease your anxiety but only a fool would do that before the preseason and Fox and Hurney are no fools. In prior years if you asked who the starter would be everyone would say Jake without question. The fact no one is saying that should give you a clue things have changed. You would have been better off saying Fox has been inconsistent and letting it go at that. That we can agree on. After that you went off the deep end with alot of speculations and kitchen sink ramblings. Don't expect for me to go back and forth with these long point by point posts. I find them tedious and frankly have said what I planned to. Argue alll you want but next time be a little more accurate and based it on facts and reality if you want a response. Otherwise speculate all you want but I won't be wasting my time replying unless you bring something new to the table.

[AceMan]

No too simplistic. Davis wasn't the back of old but he did score more regularly in the redzone than Foster. Plus Foster didn't run that well either. Davis had a poor 3.1 ypc but Foster was only 4.3. Compare that to this year or where Williams and Stewart averaged 4.8 yards a carry and you know why we didn't a running attack in 2005. We ran the balll 487 times but only got 1679 yards. Compare that to 2008 where we ran only 20 times more but got 2437 yards. Davis was part of the problem but Foster was never the solution.

Foster was averaging a whole yard more than Davis. Like I said, why not give Foster his chance while turning Davis into a contributing #2 and goalline back like we're doing with Stewart now. I agree, Williams and Stewart are wwaayy better backs. But, Fox mismanaged that situation.

Again wrong again. One difference between 2005 and 2006 was our offense was less efficient with fewer thrid down conversions. We had poorer field position and scored less often. But the defense was also a culprit. We couldn't get off the field, we went from a plus 16 to a minus 5 in turnovers. the other team converted 11 of 14 4th downs on us. And as we all know lost our quarterback in a critical stretch of December and went from a contender to a pretender.

Which is attributable to Dan Henning and which was why he was fired. On 3 down, we ran the HB draw alot...something we STILL do quite a bit. The defense was suspect too. Conservative gameplanning hurt us both ways.

As for losing our QB during a critical stretch. When Jake got hurt, we were 6-6 and Jake turned the ball over 12 times in the past 8 games. This including 2 INT games against the Eagles and Redskins back to back. The best we could of done was 9-7 and that's assuming that Jake leads us over the Giants because we weren't going to the beat Steelers. Yet, I seriously doubt that win since the Giants got the jump on us(defense playing bad) and Jake was turning the ball over late in games.

First of all I wasn't a Carr fan at all. Secondly you need to go back and do some research about who started from week to week. Our problem was even with Vinny and Carr they rarely started 2 weeks in a row. Davidson had to keep simplifying the plan and dumbing it down because he had a different guy in there every week. Moore had no experience and wasn't here for training camp or preseason. Vinny came off the couch on Wednesday and started on Sunday. And the whole Williams things has been discussed ad nauseum. Truth is with all the problems we had going 7-9 was amazing and Davidson and McCoy did a great job given the weekly changes at quarterback and schooling a very green rookie. Not to mention a defense that was pretty absysmal.

I'm not really disagreeing with you on this, but you have to admit that this is when "Fire Fox" talks started to heat up and there were reasons why. Which is why he made the gamble in the 2008 Draft. Fox didn't have this team ready for something that happened that past December. That is on him. Also, if I remember right, people were pissed we let Witherspoon walk as well as Keary Colbert starting.

No one will deny Jake was poor at times in 2008. Most chalked that up to difficulty getting comfortable after the bye and sitting for 2 weeks without any practice to rest his newly repaired arm with the bye in the playoffs and the stats bore it out. He was inconsistent in 2008 but leading up to the playoff debacle he had some of his best games. And our defense was terrible. We gave up almost 30 points per game over the second half of the season. The offense was the only thing that saved us. And if you will do some rsearch you will find that that 5 year contract was never meant to be fulfilled. We paid him the same money we were going to have to this year anyway but saved 3 million in cap space. We gave ourselves the option to pay him 13 million in 2010 and walk away after next year which is what we will likely do. The contract actually will cost us 13 million more than if we had let him play out his contract this year since he was going to make the money this year anyway. Sure a bad choice now but not the disaster you make it out to be given 2010 will be uncapped and it won't hurt us getting other players. The only crying should be Richardson.

Which is why Richardson should punish Fox/Hurney for that huge mistake. You trying to tell me we planned on playing Delhomme only 2 years on his 5-year deal? It was an incredibly stupid move when I heard about it then and it is even more stupid now. Especially after the way he was playing near the end of the season and the Arizona game. Without that extension, we are free to let him walk this year. It was poor future cap management and moreso hope that Delhomme could play for at least 3 more years. 3 mil was not worth that.

Also, it's funny that a defensive-minded Head Coach like John Fox has bad defenses the past 3 seasons from this point. (2008, 2007, 2006)

Jake will only start if Moore does what he did in 2007- regressed in the offseason. And if he does it is his fault. No one buried Moore he did it on his own. Right now it is his job to win or lose. Hurney and Fox aren't going to throw Delhomme under the bus just like they don't anybody but that doesn't mean they aren't going to give Moore a chance. And your whole NFl argument is lame. He is getting paid if he plays or sits. Why cut a guy you are going to pay 13 million too anyway. That would be stupid.

You sit here and believe Matt Moore regressed all you want. He got injured and buried in the depth chart. John Fox wanted Josh McCown as the back-up. He was been trying to get him the year before. And you cut Delhomme because he can't play. He can't pass past 20 yards accurately and is extremely turnover prone. Also, it seems like his play kills the morale of our team. We can find better back-ups than him...all we are doing is wasting a roster spot on a mistake Fox/Hurney made. You keep forgetting...Matt Moore was never going to get a chance if Delhomme never got hurt. If it was truly his job to lose, we would have made some type of endorsement like the Titans and 49ers already did.

You want Delhomme cut to ease your anxiety but only a fool would do that before the preseason and Fox and Hurney are no fools. In prior years if you asked who the starter would be everyone would say Jake without question. The fact no one is saying that should give you a clue things have changed. You would have been better off saying Fox has been inconsistent and letting it go at that. That we can agree on. After that you went off the deep end with alot of speculations and kitchen sink ramblings. Don't expect for me to go back and forth with these long point by point posts. I find them tedious and frankly have said what I planned to. Argue alll you want but next time be a little more accurate and based it on facts and reality if you want a response. Otherwise speculate all you want but I won't be wasting my time replying unless you bring something new to the table.

Cutting Delhomme is like cutting a cancer off this team. The team's late season play reflected that. Jake ain't going to get any better and NFL logic would tell you that delegating a long-time starter at QB to back-up on the same team doesn't make any sense. Especially since Jake feels like he can still start. People have been calling for Delhomme's head for years. He was the worst starter this year besides JaMarcus Russell. Why not get a guy like Jason Campbell or some other guy that can actually give Matt Moore some competition? Jake Delhomme has already left a bad taste in Carolina's mouth...if he go to camp with Moore, everyone is going to expect Moore to win out and if he doesn't, they will riot. And How am I coming up with all this stuff if Fox and Hurney said this crap themselves?! I'm stating the cold hard truth that some people don't want to hear. You think this man, John Fox, is going to bench a guy he told the media that he would have a hard time benching...even after he was playing so horrible this past season and was reinforced by starting him so long. You think Hurney planned on Delhomme being a back-up in his 2nd year of a 5 year contract? He just said he felt the same about him as he did before. Like I said, Politics and Loyalty is going to come into play if Jake and Fox are both here next year. People are looking into the future to keep Fox, but are forgetting a famous quote "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

But, I'mma agree on your notion that Fox has been inconsistent and I don't want that type of inconsistency for this franchise anymore. His flaws are starting to outway his strengths. It's time to move on.