An Intriguing Solution?

[weyco2000]

I've heard and read talk of trading away part of "Double Trouble", which as far as I'm concerned, is totally far fetched. What do the Panthers have of value? Williams, Stewart and Smith are names mentioned in trade scenario's on the offense. Defensively, Peppers or Beason come to mind, however without a long term contract Peppers is off the table. As far as Beason is concerned, well he's untouchable. Which brings me to one name... Jordan Gross. (I said intriguing, although highly unlikely!) This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it, Gross is overrated and overpaid! (Don't believe me, ask Jake.) He's a right tackle making left tackle money. (60 million for 6 yrs.) Is he worth 10 miilion a year? I don't see it! At 6'4" and 305 lbs, he is undersized and doesn't fit into our sysem. If you watch the film, he gets "beat" alot espicially by speed rushers. Since his injury not only has the pass protection improved, but the run blocking has been lights out. I hate saying that about an injured player, but 10 million dollars? (I was also turned off with his statements regarding his recent contract. He said he gave the Panthers a "bargain" and said he could've signed elsewhere for far more.) What is intriguing about this, you ask? 10 million off the cap = Jakes outright release and a servicable WR. Not as crazy as trading a 1100+ yd back.

[Urrymonster]

One thing I would consider, is that with Gross and Delhomme out, Davidson called a lot more roll outs and plays designed to get Moore away from the pass rush. The performance of our OLine in the latter games was helped greatly by this, so I would not say that the replacement OTs did a better job than Gross.

Essentially Gross has had a bad year this year, especially compared to last year when he genuinely was one of the top LTs in the league. However, Wharton did not improve the LT spot, he merely maintained Gross' level of performance. Considering that, we genuinely have no viable replacement as a permanent LT fixture. Wharton was significantly more effective than Mack, so I personally feel we would be making two spots worse on the OLine.

The second thing to consider, is that the pasing game in the last 5 games significantly opened up the running game. Without having a gimmie turnover or three, defenses had to play us more honestly and that allowed our backs to be more consistent runners.

One final observation is that Gross certainly is NOT undersized. He was considered undersized for a RT, purely because in our system they are meant to be a mauler. He is the prototypical size for a LT, especially in our system. Also to consider, last year the majority of our big gains, came from behind Wharton and Gross whereas the consistent ones came from the right side.

You must also consider that not many people would want to take on Gross having just signed a whopping extension. It is entirely possible the language of the deal is suited to our team and could mess up others potential cap situations int he future. Therefore the only option for potential suitors, is to offer a pay cut (which he would not accept) or extending an already sizable contract, which would be difficult...

Frankly I do not think you break up a good thing. Especially when you only have two 2nd year players and one rookie behind them on the depth chart. It is too risky and that would leave us in huge depth problems for the coming season. Much like letting either of DWill or Stew going would be making this team weaker, breaking up the one of the strongest parts of this team would also make us weaker.

[weyco2000]

I also think the Panthers were "forced" to sign either Pep or Gross long term, did the front office screw up and go for the "cheapest" route? Thanks for your thoughts, but TEN MILLION a year? Front office probably thought we were deeper on the DL, when in fact it was totally opposite. Schwartz, Wharton and Bernadeu played much better than I could have imagined. Does that reflect on the coaching staff's ability to judge talent? How many guys starting for other teams, on OL or DL have made a stop in the Queen City?

[jramsey4]

IMO Oline play is the single most important area on O. You don't go trading away an all-pro line to go out and get an unknown at WR (which is why I'm assuming why we would trade him). That is like cutting off to spite your face. On the other hand a #2 back is expendable.

LT is one of the hardest postitions to draft and train you don't want to go back to the days of old where every year we had a shuffle up front trying to put guys where they would help the most. When it comes to the success of the running game I think it is more a reflection on solid oline play then it is the runner. A good Oline can make an average back look good.

[KARASMATIC444]

One thing I would consider, is that with Gross and Delhomme out, Davidson called a lot more roll outs and plays designed to get Moore away from the pass rush. The performance of our OLine in the latter games was helped greatly by this, so I would not say that the replacement OTs did a better job than Gross.

Essentially Gross has had a bad year this year, especially compared to last year when he genuinely was one of the top LTs in the league. However, Wharton did not improve the LT spot, he merely maintained Gross' level of performance. Considering that, we genuinely have no viable replacement as a permanent LT fixture. Wharton was significantly more effective than Mack, so I personally feel we would be making two spots worse on the OLine.

The second thing to consider, is that the pasing game in the last 5 games significantly opened up the running game. Without having a gimmie turnover or three, defenses had to play us more honestly and that allowed our backs to be more consistent runners.

One final observation is that Gross certainly is NOT undersized. He was considered undersized for a RT, purely because in our system they are meant to be a mauler. He is the prototypical size for a LT, especially in our system. Also to consider, last year the majority of our big gains, came from behind Wharton and Gross whereas the consistent ones came from the right side.

You must also consider that not many people would want to take on Gross having just signed a whopping extension. It is entirely possible the language of the deal is suited to our team and could mess up others potential cap situations int he future. Therefore the only option for potential suitors, is to offer a pay cut (which he would not accept) or extending an already sizable contract, which would be difficult...

Frankly I do not think you break up a good thing. Especially when you only have two 2nd year players and one rookie behind them on the depth chart. It is too risky and that would leave us in huge depth problems for the coming season. Much like letting either of DWill or Stew going would be making this team weaker, breaking up the one of the strongest parts of this team would also make us weaker.

well said.

[err456]

Here's my thoughts on Peppers. If he and his agent are just trying to make the most possible money he will probably be hard to sign this year especially if they tag him.

All he would have to do is refuse to sign long term, get tagged, refuse a long term deal again and then collect 20 mil. Why would a smart man sign?

Next year sign a long term deal here or where ever.

If he truly wants out of Carolina then he will sign the tag early and give the team a chance to trade him. He can then give Carolina a chance to get compensation and he will work out a long term deal with who ever signs him. I have no clue what he wants but I think he found out last year he is not worth what he thought he was and staying with Carolina for the 16 mil was his best payday and that's why he did not sign until it was to late for them to deal him.

He also knows doing the same thing this year will get him the best pay again. If the club decides not to sign him he is free to leave but we still may offer him more than anyone else. Who knows? 20 mil in one year is crazy. I think the team would be crazy to offer it and he would be crazy to turn it down if they do.

It will be very interesting!

[Jackofalltrades]

Gross overrated? He's widely regarded as one of the best LT's in the league. We aren't paying too much for him AND for the first time in a long time we have some continuity on the OL, so no to getting rid of Gross.

[Baschski]

Gross is our rock on the O-line. He may have had a bit of a down year, but he still performed better than most LT's in the league. Even if he is overrated or overpaid (I don't agree), he's still pretty damn good and better than our #2. This team lives and dies by its O-line, gotta keep him.

[guyinchesapeake]

The way our "O" line developed in the face of many serious injuries, it is worth exploring to see if any players there are surpluss that can bring good value if traded. I'm a big fan of having good line depth, but good blocking is always at a premium in the league, so some established blockers could be valuable trade bait. We're NOT going to get anything for Pep, we found that out last year. Some guys are untouchable, I consider Smitty and D-Will, and Beason among them. But I'm all for trades that bring good draft picks AND good established players to boot. The nice thing is I don't think we HAVE to consider trading anyone at this time. If we do, it should be for a good WR, but we ought to wait to see whose available via FA, and in the draft. STs are a must as well.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

Gross overrated? He's widely regarded as one of the best LT's in the league. We aren't paying too much for him AND for the first time in a long time we have some continuity on the OL, so no to getting rid of Gross.

:iagree:

I don't want to trade away Williams or Stewart, but I'll say that it's probably easier to find a 1,000-yard back than it is an All-Pro left tackle.

This team's success last year and even somewhat this year has been largely a result of our offensive line. I don't want to mess with it at all. We've got great starters, and good depth.

[weyco2000]

Gross has 1 Pro Bowl season since becoming a Panther and that was the year he was "franchised" (last year). Is that worth 10 million a year? Just throwing a name out there, that I haven't seen mentioned in trade talk. As far as "Double Trouble" are concerned, they make each other better by splitting carries. If you take away one, the other will suffer. When Williams was out and Stewart started, we used Hoover at TB and in the "Wildcat", that's not striking fear into anyone except me!

[beastson]

I made a thread about this a couple weeks ago

[weyco2000]

My apologies to you sir!

[Jackofalltrades]

Gross never played the same position twice until last year either, he switched ends EVERY season until last year.

As for the pro bowl, the NFL's second leading tackler didn't make the Pro Bowl and we're in a small market team that makes the play offs every other year. Not sure Gross' election to the PB should have anything to do with this conversation.

JStew didn't make the PB, nor has Thomas Davis or Hoover, who you could argue is maybe the top lead blocking FB in the league.

Gross is the cornerstone of the line, earned his contract isn't someone I would trade unless a blockbuster deal was made.