So Far, So Good....

[twylyght]

if i t was this easy why havent they done this yet? how do you shore up a line we dont even know will be all that good? it is not like we had the vikings dline waiting in the wings. we got these guys cheap for a reason.

They seemed to do well enough in our game against the Vikings. I reiterate that I would have liked to had retained Damione Lewis, but I believe that the guys we have now have shown enough promise in the scheme that Meeks has planned to deliver what we need to win.

[firstdayfan]

Here's the way I see it...we have currently lost 8 starters fromlast years' team: jake, moose, Vincent, peppers, Lewis, kemo, brayton, and diggs. Normally this would be a disaster but I really think the big difference here is that we aren't bringing in 8 new started that have to learn a whole new system...these guys are already in place. Moore has starting experience, bernardeu played well last year at LG, Johnson might have been the most disruptive DE after peppers, leonard and Tyler showed some promise while Ed Johnson has played at a high level, and finally the competition between Connor and Anderson for diggs spot should bring out the best in them.

To me, the only question mark is at WR but I really think Jarrett can step up and play. Yes we need some depth but that's what the draft is for...reload this depth chart with some more young talent. Go pick up a free agent or two and we will be fine. It's no where near as bad as 2001...I wish people would stop making the comparison.

[carolinanimal]

what is everyones idea of fine? is 8-8 fine or 11-5, 10-6?

[jramsey4]

Here's the way I see it...we have currently lost 8 starters fromlast years' team: jake, moose, Vincent, peppers, Lewis, kemo, brayton, and diggs. Normally this would be a disaster but I really think the big difference here is that we aren't bringing in 8 new started that have to learn a whole new system...these guys are already in place. Moore has starting experience, bernardeu played well last year at LG, Johnson might have been the most disruptive DE after peppers, leonard and Tyler showed some promise while Ed Johnson has played at a high level, and finally the competition between Connor and Anderson for diggs spot should bring out the best in them.

To me, the only question mark is at WR but I really think Jarrett can step up and play. Yes we need some depth but that's what the draft is for...reload this depth chart with some more young talent. Go pick up a free agent or two and we will be fine. It's no where near as bad as 2001...I wish people would stop making the comparison.

I would go as far as to say that its not even as bad as last year as it sits. Because of who is and is not starting at QB at season beginning. That and I think Kemo, Diggs, Lewis, Moose (now), Vincent, and Brayton, while solid, are nothing special nor hard to replace. I think we are just witnessing finally what we have always wanted, Fox to give younger more talented players a chance.

[panthers55]

Starting experience career-wise and sacks in 2009 for the guys getting booted:

Julius Peppers- 120 games- 10.5 sacks

Damione Lewis- 63 games- .5 sacks

Kemoeatu- 61 games DNP

Brayton- 78 games-5 sacks in 2009

Now lets look at who is left

Brown- 1 start- 2.5 sacks

Tank Tyler- 19 starts-0 sacks

Louis Leonard- 5 starts-1 sack

Charles Johnson- 4 starts- 4 sacks

Hilee Taylor- 0 Starts-0 sacks

Nick Hayden- 3 starts-1 sack

Corvey Irvin- 0 starts-DNP

Ed Johnson- 21 starts-DNP

And you guys think the defensive line will be fine?

From a veteran experience and production point of view, all of the guys still here did not measure up to Pepper's numbers alone. Plus the next best player who was second in sacks and first in tackles (Brayton) is not being retained either.

Anyone who is drinking the koolaid and believing we will be fine are going to be sorely disappointed next Fall. The question isn't whether the defense will end up being okay but how long will it take for the defense to get their act together. Last year I hoped the offense would rescue the defense and it didn't happen. I predicted that last year we would be 0-3 or 1-2 after the first 3 games based on the defense starting slow last year. It is way too early to say anything definitive this year given we might pick up some ballers in FA and the draft who could impact the defensive line. But if we took this bunch into camp and made no additions, we will be looking at a poor defensive line this year as well. We will struggle getting pressure and still be susceptible to the run. Both things which are deadly to a Meeks defense.

And before someone says we had to do it to get rid of old expensive players, it isn't true. Peppers was expensive and Kemo is still injured. But Brayton is cheap and still in his prime. Lewis still had some good years left and wasn't expensive. We sacrificed tons of experience, leadership and production in the hopes some young untested guys would come through. Frankly for those wanting Hurney and Fox gone, you should hope they flop miserably. Since I will be going to each game, I hope somehow they gel early and put a good product on the field. I also am rooting that we will be players later on in FA.. We all saw how much our draft picks like Irvin contributed last year. I would hate to count on rookies to save our bacon this year.

[twylyght]

what is everyones idea of fine? is 8-8 fine or 11-5, 10-6?

Going by the 5 games that Moore started last year, 11+ games which included playoff caliber teams as well as a SB winner. Add DWill to the mix as well as the cursory offseason tweak and we are sitting pretty.

[cookinbrak]

Damn, the "rose colored glasses" store must be having a sale.....

[panthers55]

Going by the 5 games that Moore started last year, 11+ games which included playoff caliber teams as well as a SB winner. Add DWill to the mix as well as the cursory offseason tweak and we are sitting pretty.

So you are saying the offense will carry the defense? The Saints are a perfect rebuttal to your statements. When they had a great offense and suspect defense they went 8-8 in 2008. It wasn't until the defense improved substantially in 2009 that they went into the playoffs. There is no way we can count on a quarterback with less than 10 games in his career to bail us out. Unless our defense improves alot this year and starts off strong, we are looking at another poor start and struggle to make the playoffs no matter the schedule. We are sitting far from pretty at this point. The best thing we can say is that free agency has just started and our opening day roster might look different from what is does today.

[carolinanimal]

Starting experience career-wise and sacks in 2009 for the guys getting booted:

Julius Peppers- 120 games- 10.5 sacks

Damione Lewis- 63 games- .5 sacks

Kemoeatu- 61 games DNP

Brayton- 78 games-5 sacks in 2009

Now lets look at who is left

Brown- 1 start- 2.5 sacks

Tank Tyler- 19 starts-0 sacks

Louis Leonard- 5 starts-1 sack

Charles Johnson- 4 starts- 4 sacks

Hilee Taylor- 0 Starts-0 sacks

Nick Hayden- 3 starts-1 sack

Corvey Irvin- 0 starts-DNP

Ed Johnson- 21 starts-DNP

And you guys think the defensive line will be fine?

From a veteran experience and production point of view, all of the guys still here did not measure up to Pepper's numbers alone. Plus the next best player who was second in sacks and first in tackles (Brayton) is not being retained either.

Anyone who is drinking the koolaid and believing we will be fine are going to be sorely disappointed next Fall. The question isn't whether the defense will end up being okay but how long will it take for the defense to get their act together. Last year I hoped the offense would rescue the defense and it didn't happen. I predicted that last year we would be 0-3 or 1-2 after the first 3 games based on the defense starting slow last year. It is way too early to say anything definitive this year given we might pick up some ballers in FA and the draft who could impact the defensive line. But if we took this bunch into camp and made no additions, we will be looking at a poor defensive line this year as well. We will struggle getting pressure and still be susceptible to the run. Both things which are deadly to a Meeks defense.

And before someone says we had to do it to get rid of old expensive players, it isn't true. Peppers was expensive and Kemo is still injured. But Brayton is cheap and still in his prime. Lewis still had some good years left and wasn't expensive. We sacrificed tons of experience, leadership and production in the hopes some young untested guys would come through. Frankly for those wanting Hurney and Fox gone, you should hope they flop miserably. Since I will be going to each game, I hope somehow they gel early and put a good product on the field. I also am rooting that we will be players later on in FA.. We all saw how much our draft picks like Irvin contributed last year. I would hate to count on rookies to save our bacon this year.

p55 i disagree with you on a lot of things, but i totally agree here! i have been saying this for the past couple of days. Everyone keeps saying we havent lost anybody special,while this may be true, we havent added anyone special yet either.

They act like this is some master plan by the fo to "go young", when all it really is is a opportunity to salary dump.

p55 have you notice our team is the only one making these whole sale changes? seems strange to me.

[Lout]

i would be very pleased if we went 10-6 next year with all these changes we have made.. and this extremely young roster. i'd say Fox would deserve that extension if he were able to pull that off with this inexperienced club.

[twylyght]

Starting experience career-wise and sacks in 2009 for the guys getting booted:

Julius Peppers- 120 games- 10.5 sacks

Damione Lewis- 63 games- .5 sacks

Kemoeatu- 61 games DNP

Brayton- 78 games-5 sacks in 2009

Now lets look at who is left

Brown- 1 start- 2.5 sacks

Tank Tyler- 19 starts-0 sacks

Louis Leonard- 5 starts-1 sack

Charles Johnson- 4 starts- 4 sacks

Hilee Taylor- 0 Starts-0 sacks

Nick Hayden- 3 starts-1 sack

Corvey Irvin- 0 starts-DNP

Ed Johnson- 21 starts-DNP

And you guys think the defensive line will be fine?

From a veteran experience and production point of view, all of the guys still here did not measure up to Pepper's numbers alone. Plus the next best player who was second in sacks and first in tackles (Brayton) is not being retained either.

Anyone who is drinking the koolaid and believing we will be fine are going to be sorely disappointed next Fall. The question isn't whether the defense will end up being okay but how long will it take for the defense to get their act together. Last year I hoped the offense would rescue the defense and it didn't happen. I predicted that last year we would be 0-3 or 1-2 after the first 3 games based on the defense starting slow last year. It is way too early to say anything definitive this year given we might pick up some ballers in FA and the draft who could impact the defensive line. But if we took this bunch into camp and made no additions, we will be looking at a poor defensive line this year as well. We will struggle getting pressure and still be susceptible to the run. Both things which are deadly to a Meeks defense.

And before someone says we had to do it to get rid of old expensive players, it isn't true. Peppers was expensive and Kemo is still injured. But Brayton is cheap and still in his prime. Lewis still had some good years left and wasn't expensive. We sacrificed tons of experience, leadership and production in the hopes some young untested guys would come through. Frankly for those wanting Hurney and Fox gone, you should hope they flop miserably. Since I will be going to each game, I hope somehow they gel early and put a good product on the field. I also am rooting that we will be players later on in FA.. We all saw how much our draft picks like Irvin contributed last year. I would hate to count on rookies to save our bacon this year.

I must have missed something. Has Brayton signed with someone else? Is there any reason for us to not have the option of bringing him back? We have addressed our key players, and can now focus on our support roles. In fact, we would do well to look at a number of positions to see where we have actually jettisoned our personnel where it is assumed that we will not sign players back. Just because someone is an UFA does not mean that they will not end up with the team.

Also, to focus on a traditional system where sacks is your sole measuring stick of a Dline's performance would be wrong to consider in how Meeks is implementing his scheme. We now have a defense that is dynamic and agile where offenses will now have to guess where the pressure is coming from. Granted, we will do better with that run-stuffer in the middle (hence my trepidation of letting Lewis go), but we will now see LBs and DBs coming off the edge and stunting up the middle for pressure. Leave the Trgo views of defense dead and buried in the past. Meeks showed that he can do this.

The sky is not falling. It has opened up for us as an organization.

[twylyght]

So you are saying the offense will carry the defense? The Saints are a perfect rebuttal to your statements. When they had a great offense and suspect defense they went 8-8 in 2008. It wasn't until the defense improved substantially in 2009 that they went into the playoffs. There is no way we can count on a quarterback with less than 10 games in his career to bail us out. Unless our defense improves alot this year and starts off strong, we are looking at another poor start and struggle to make the playoffs no matter the schedule. We are sitting far from pretty at this point. The best thing we can say is that free agency has just started and our opening day roster might look different from what is does today.

Again, I point to the last 5 games for last year. You want the model of a winning team. There it is.

[pantherfan81]

what is everyones idea of fine? is 8-8 fine or 11-5, 10-6?

I say 10-6. JR will probably think 9-7 is okay & Fox will get an extension if he hits that mark. Especially with all the changes.

[carolinanimal]

I must have missed something. Has Brayton signed with someone else? Is there any reason for us to not have the option of bringing him back? We have addressed our key players, and can now focus on our support roles. In fact, we would do well to look at a number of positions to see where we have actually jettisoned our personnel where it is assumed that we will not sign players back. Just because someone is an UFA does not mean that they will not end up with the team.

Also, to focus on a traditional system where sacks is your sole measuring stick of a Dline's performance would be wrong to consider in how Meeks is implementing his scheme. We now have a defense that is dynamic and agile where offenses will now have to guess where the pressure is coming from. Granted, we will do better with that run-stuffer in the middle (hence my trepidation of letting Lewis go), but we will now see LBs and DBs coming off the edge and stunting up the middle for pressure. Leave the Trgo views of defense dead and buried in the past. Meeks showed that he can do this.

The sky is not falling. It has opened up for us as an organization.

you do realize that a meeks defense relies a lot on the dline. it doesnt blitz very much at all.