Should Matt Moore feel pressured by Clausen?

[top dawg]

P-55, does anyone really hate Moore?

I don't really think so. If he starts stinking up the field, then it will be a different story.

I just think that many Panthers fans are ready for a genuine franchise QB, and that the Clausen Kool-Aid is just a teeny bit sweeter than it was yesterday.

[panthers55]

P-55, does anyone really hate Moore?

I don't really think so. If he starts stinking up the field, then it will be a different story.

I just think that many Panthers fans are ready for a genuine franchise QB, and that the Clausen Kool-Aid is just a teeny bit sweeter than it was yesterday.

I do think that people who like Clausen think they can't like both Moore and Clausen but they are wrong. It is very likely that Moore will be gone next year if Richardson doesn't open up the purse strings. Clausen is aleady signed for 4 years while Moore will be a free agent next year. If Moore has a great year it is likely he will want a long term contract for huge bucks that JR isn't going to pay if he has Clausen already.

So the reality is that IMO Clausen will be the starter in a year or two and the best thing for him is to get time to develop and improve before being thrust out there. I thnk that everyone has to be glad Clausen had a good outing last night, because he is a Panther. My comments were primarliy in response to those talking about how great he did. I saw lots of things that worked against a poor secondary with second stringers that wouldn't work if he were the starter. But it only an issue if you think he has to start right away. For me I am very comfortable where he was for a first outing. But that is all it was, a rookie first outing. Not an endorsement for a starting role. He will hopefully get better and improve.

Frankly I am glad that we actually have a few guys to pick from. It has been a long time since we actually had more than one guy who could play quarterback and sometimes it looked like we had nobody who could.

[Brooklyn Bully]

Moore haters are just trying to create controversy where there isn't any.

I do think this thread was started with anti Clausen thoughts behind it.

Have the Panthers ever had a time, other than Carr, when a large percentage of the fan base dislikes a player like they do for Clausen? It's shocking. Choosing sides is insane. Let's accept the fact that we have two possibly franchise QBs and see where it takes us.

[top dawg]

Frankly, I believe that we should all take a step back...take the emotion out of it...evaluate and appreciate both players with as much objectivity as we can muster. The way that I look at it is an open competition, where---all things being equal---the best play will decide who is on the field.

I know that it may not be popular, but I feel that Moore is the starter by default. Save for possibly one game (possibly), I haven't seen Moore do anything spectacular, and I believe that his greatest claim to fame is being the backup to the worst possible version of Delhomme---and any NFL QB---that anyone could conceive. In other words, he instantly became the Anti-Jake. This being said, I think that the Delhomme-esque love for the guy is quite irrational (but, of course, ironic). IMHO, Moore doesn't have the body of work that warrants the fanaticism of the most celebrated QB in panthers history (not even close). This being said, Moore did his best Delhomme, yet anti-Delhomme, impression by coming in and doing an adequate job (during games that, arguably, mattered little in the grand scheme of thing). Moreover, Jake's tragic downfall not only stunned ardent jake lovers, it left these people with a void to be filled which was conveniently filled by Matt Moore, and gave them a reason to keep their irrational fanaticism alive. Of course other fans (like me) who were always somewhat skeptical of Jake (but learned to appreciate him over time), just soured over the whole Jake-game-manager philosophy when Jake began his fall from grace, and now crave a franchise QB who will not only be a game manager, but put fear in the hearts of the opposition every time that he goes back to pass. Enter Jimmy Clausen.

Clausen, by many accounts, has the skills to be that franchise QB. Not to mention that his fall into the second round makes his story, and the story of the 2010 Carolina panthers, that much more compelling and interesting. Is it hype? Hell yeah. Is there something behind that hype? I don't know, but I sure as hell hope so. But, like many have pointed out, so far Clausen hasn't done too much of anything that lives up to his pre-draft billing, but I hope that changes. But, it it doesn't, then hopefully Moore will earn the fanaticism that he has garnered by being on the right side of the end of the Jake Delhomme era as a Panther, by beginning the Matt Moore era.

But, make no mistake, IMHO we are in a no-man's-land. This is an era of transition that has not taken total shape yet, because neither Moore, nor Clausen have stepped up (not the they have a real opportunity). But, that's what competiton----this pre-season---the 2010 season---is all about.

[top dawg]

Frankly, I believe that we should all take a step back...take the emotion out of it...evaluate and appreciate both players with as much objectivity as we can muster. The way that I look at it is an open competition, where---all things being equal---the best play will decide who is on the field.

I know that it may not be popular, but I feel that Moore is the starter by default. Save for possibly one game (possibly), I haven't seen Moore do anything spectacular, and I believe that his greatest claim to fame is being the backup to the worst possible version of Delhomme---and any NFL QB---that anyone could conceive. In other words, he instantly became the Anti-Jake. This being said, I think that the Delhomme-esque love for the guy is quite irrational (but, of course, ironic). IMHO, Moore doesn't have the body of work that warrants the fanaticism of the most celebrated QB in panthers history (not even close). This being said, Moore did his best Delhomme, yet anti-Delhomme, impression by coming in and doing an adequate job (during games that, arguably, mattered little in the grand scheme of thing). Moreover, Jake's tragic downfall not only stunned ardent jake lovers, it left these people with a void to be filled which was conveniently filled by Matt Moore, and gave them a reason to keep their irrational fanaticism alive. Of course other fans (like me) who were always somewhat skeptical of Jake (but learned to appreciate him over time), just soured over the whole Jake-game-manager philosophy when Jake began his fall from grace, and now crave a franchise QB who will not only be a game manager, but put fear in the hearts of the opposition every time that he goes back to pass. Enter Jimmy Clausen.

Clausen, by many accounts, has the skills to be that franchise QB. Not to mention that his fall into the second round makes his story, and the story of the 2010 Carolina panthers, that much more compelling and interesting. Is it hype? Hell yeah. Is there something behind that hype? I don't know, but I sure as hell hope so. But, like many have pointed out, so far Clausen hasn't done too much of anything that lives up to his pre-draft billing, but I hope that changes. But, it it doesn't, then hopefully Moore will earn the fanaticism that he has garnered by being on the right side of the end of the Jake Delhomme era as a Panther, by beginning the Matt Moore era.

But, make no mistake, IMHO we are in a no-man's-land. This is an era of transition that has not taken total shape yet, because neither Moore, nor Clausen have stepped up (not the they have a real opportunity). But, that's what competition----this pre-season---the 2010 season---is all about.

[panthers55]

Frankly, I believe that we should all take a step back...take the emotion out of it...evaluate and appreciate both players with as much objectivity as we can muster. The way that I look at it is an open competition, where---all things being equal---the best play will decide who is on the field.

I know that it may not be popular, but I feel that Moore is the starter by default... IMHO, Moore doesn't have the body of work that warrants the fanaticism........., Moore did his best Delhomme, yet anti-Delhomme, impression by coming in and doing an adequate job (during games that, arguably, mattered little in the grand scheme of thing).

.

Clausen, by many accounts, has the skills to be that franchise QB.

This is an era of transition that has not taken total shape yet, because neither Moore, nor Clausen have stepped up (not the they have a real opportunity). But, that's what competition----this pre-season---the 2010 season---is all about.

So this is an objective report?? Must be me then. I could swear you were leaning to the Clausen side just a tad. My bad

:cheers2:

[top dawg]

So this is an objective report?? Must be me then. I could swear you were leaning to the Clausen side just a tad. My bad

:cheers2:

P-55, without a hack job of your quotes, if I am leaning towards the Clausen side (which not saying I'm not), then it is about as much as you and others are leaning towards the Moore side. IMHO, much more explanation and attention has to be given to the Moore side because of the tie between his ascension to the throne, and Jake's untimely fall from grace. Like Coach Fox says, "It is what it is." As for Moore, I, like many of us, are not quite as ready to crown his ass (to use Green-speak), and I am going to use a variation of Fox-speak when I ask "Is it what is it?"

There is more irrational hate for Clausen, than rational love for Moore.

Being Pro-Clausen does not necessarily mean being anti-Moore. Likewise, being pro-Moore does not necessarily mean being anti-Clausen. The two aren't mutually exclusive, unlike what many in the Huddle may believe.

[panthers55]

P-55, without a hack job of your quotes, if I am leaning towards the Clausen side (which not saying I'm not), then it is about as much as you and others are leaning towards the Moore side. IMHO, much more explanation and attention has to be given to the Moore side because of the tie between his ascension to the throne, and Jake's untimely fall from grace. Like Coach Fox says, "It is what it is." As for Moore, I, like many of us, are not quite as ready to crown his ass (to use Green-speak), and I am going to use a variation of Fox-speak when I ask "Is it what is it?"

There is more irrational hate for Clausen, than rational love for Moore.

Being Pro-Clausen does not necessarily mean being anti-Moore. Likewise, being pro-Moore does not necessarily mean being anti-Clausen. The two aren't mutually exclusive, unlike what many in the Huddle may believe.

If the choice right now is lining up both of them and picking sides then you're right that I am firmly in the Moore camp. Especially until he shows he can't handle it.

Like you said being pro-Moore isn't being anti-Clausen. It is just valuing his 8 games of experience over 3 seasons more than Clausen's six completions in one preseason game. I would go as far as saying that no matter what Clausen does this preseason, Moore would still be my man.

I can't really understand how anyone who is being objective would see ii otherwise. Lets see what each does the next few weeks. I think they both will do well. For that matter I will be rooting for my boy, Cantwell to do well also.

Seems to me that Panther fans should be hoping they all do well this preseason. Don't you agree??

[panthers55]

But honestly I have no problem with a competition between them. Maybe it is me but I can't imagine a circumstance barring injury where Clausen could possibly outplay Moore. But I like Cantwell too so what do I know.

[panthers55]

And it is perfectly in alignment with what I have said all year. It isn't at all about Clausen for me. It wouldn't have mattered who we picked up. For the money and draft pick Clausen will be a steal. I was a critic of dummping all the veterans, thought we should have kept Delhomme since we had to pay him (but perfectly understand why they dumped him). Was fine with keeping Moore but wanted a veteran backup, was happy with Clausen and think it was a great move but never wanted him to see the field his rookie year.

I favor veterans over rookies, proven performance over future potential when we are talking about the now. Down the road potential is exciting. One of the reasons I liked Edwards even though I wouldn't have pulled the trigger, but Hurney is a gambler and right more often than wrong. Unless someone else is pulling the strings. But that is the story of another post.

[top dawg]

If the choice right now is lining up both of them and picking sides then you're right that I am firmly in the Moore camp. Especially until he shows he can't handle it.

Like you said being pro-Moore isn't being anti-Clausen. It is just valuing his 8 games of experience over 3 seasons more than Clausen's six completions in one preseason game. I would go as far as saying that no matter what Clausen does this preseason, Moore would still be my man.

I can't really understand how anyone who is being objective would see i, otherwise. Lets see what each does the next few weeks. I think they will both will do well. For that matter I will be rooting for my boy, Cantwell to do well also.

Seems to me that Panther fans should be hoping they all do well this preseason. Don't you agree??

Sorry, P-55, I think that it is a little bit disingenuous to hold up Moore's

eight little starts as enough of a sampling to say that he should be the starter no matter what. Can't see it. Don't agree, so I will agree to disagree.

I do agree that all Panthers fans should desire that they all do well during this preseason. I hope they all do well...I really do...but, even if they all do, someone has to distinguish themselves in the minds of the coaches enough to start on opening day. The NFL isn't a fairy tale. It's not a Warhol masterpiece. Hell, it's more like an Orwell's 1984 because Big Brother is always watching, and expects conform to the rules and play your part. It's kind of Darwinian, as only the strong survive, and that the natural life-cycle

of an NFL career is fraught with bumps and bruises and can end within a moment's notice. But, I'm getting off on a tangent. Suffice it to say that it is the nature of competition to lift some higher than others...filter out the pretenders from the real deal. This happens in every facet of life. Of course life ain't always fair, and sometimes the best are never given an opportunity to thrive. Fortunately for us, I think that in this situation our FO is of the mindset that all of our guys will get an opportunity based upon their production and merit, and not just seniority. This is how it is in the NFL.

At the end of the day, I (perhaps, selfishly, or unrealistically under the current team culture and philosophy) want the Panthers to have a true franchise QB. And, truly, I don't care if his name is Moore, Clausen, Cantwell, Pike, Edwards, M-Effer, or what.

[The Don]

wasn't this thread posted this morning... and it's carried over into the night hours. what's going on here? i thought we solved this debacle. Moore is gonna start, Clausen will sit... a year, maybe two... then he'll be the starter. which clearly means Moore will either be out the door or a backup, and i'm leaning towards out the door... which now means that Moore is basically playing this season to audition for a starting job elsewhere after the season ends. don't get me wrong, Matt Moore has a really nice deep ball, but Clausen's got the whole package, and he clearly showed that in Thursday nights game. it's all about consistency, and he played the exact same way at Notre Dame last year.

[panthers55]

wasn't this thread posted this morning... and it's carried over into the night hours. what's going on here? i thought we solved this debacle. Moore is gonna start, Clausen will sit... a year, maybe two... then he'll be the starter. which clearly means Moore will either be out the door or a backup, and i'm leaning towards out the door... which now means that Moore is basically playing this season to audition for a starting job elsewhere after the season ends. don't get me wrong, Matt Moore has the whole package and I hope that Clausen does too. Thursday nights game was a good start. But it's all about consistency, and he needs to at least play every preseason game well in order for fans to say that he has the same consistency that moore has shown over the years.

Agree totally. It will be great to know we have a backup who can go in if the starter gets hurt and still run the offense. I hope Clausen is that guy. If he is going to be the backup then of course you want him to be the best he can be.

:yesnod:

:cheers2:

[Pox 08]

But honestly I have no problem with a competition between them. Maybe it is me but I can't imagine a circumstance barring injury where Clausen could possibly outplay Moore. But I like Cantwell too so what do I know.

Yeah, Moore would win an open competition. I'd hope so anyway since he has been in the league for going on four years and seems to have a little more chemistry with Jarrett, Moore, Smith and all three TEs.

Viewing another player as a threat makes one strive to be even better than they are, imo. Even if there's no real competition to speak of.

Someone mentioned David Carr and Delhomme...

Who is to say that David Carr's presence didn't impact Delhomme and make him work harder to get better? Before he got injured, he played 3 games in '07, he had 624 yards, 8 td, 1 int, 64 pct, 111 qb rating. Guy was balling right out of the gate.