Setting Realistic Expectations: Panthers 2010 & solving the riddle: 2013.(LONG)

[PantherFanForLife]

First of all there is no guarantee that there will be a cap going forward. Because as it now stands not only is there not a cap but there is no floor either. Previously, teams had to spend 80% of the cap so there was little incentive to spend less. Now owners can spend as little as they like with no consequence. Players are realizing that without a floor, they could make much less than before.

Secondly, until a cap is put in place and we know what that number is, we don't know if we are well off or not. The owners want a 20% reduction in salaries which presumes a 20% reduction in the cap.

As for cutting players, we might be done in 2010 but may not resign a number of players next year. Kalil, Williams, Davis, and Moore come to mind right off the bat. In fact with a new coach or staff that decides to implement a new lok like a 3-4 for example, guys like Beason wouldn't necessarily fit the same as our DEs and most of our DTs (that is why I doubt we change schemes but what do I know??)

Cap space is simply money manipulation and fancy contracts but it means little. Teams like Washington have traditionally manipulated the cap to sign whoever they want. All it keeps you doing is signing a bunch of free agents or cutting folks randomly without a plan. But few if any teams actualy are hurt that much by the cap.

The real issue is not cap but payroll. Will Jerry loosen up the pursestrings to spend the 80-100 million more in guaranteed money it will take to keep our young talent here. If he decides not to, then we could easily be like Tampa was for years with suspect talent and a loss of players when then became free agents and leave or a lack of free agents who want to play here.

And that is my point. The cap savings are irrelevant since we don't know if there will be a new one or what that number will be. The real issue is whether Richardson will pay to keep all of the roster who are under 1 year deals, restricted free agents, free agents after this year, or like Beason have outplayed their contracts.

The general consensus is that there will be a new cap. I haven't read too many articles that were suggesting the possibility of the opposite.

And while I agree that you can manipulate cap, if an owner really wants to spend money, there were years where we really could not make many moves because we were pushing the higher limit of the cap. I don't see Richardson as being the most generous owner, but I do think he may be getting some unfair criticism right now, that may look like he's just being cheap when in fact he could be very well implementing the strategy I talked about in the begining.

If after the new coaching staff arrives he continues to act like this, I think at that point we can point our fingers and call him cheap. Until then though, I say we just need to wait and see.

[Fiz]

As for cutting players, we might be done in 2010 but may not resign a number of players next year. Kalil, Williams, Davis, and Moore come to mind right off the bat. In fact with a new coach or staff that decides to implement a new lok like a 3-4 for example, guys like Beason wouldn't necessarily fit the same as our DEs and most of our DTs (that is why I doubt we change schemes but what do I know??)

Beason would make a fine WILB.

[panthers55]

Thank you someone understood.

We have cut all the players we are going to. We might not resign some of our free agents. But all I was trying to say was we will have a lot of cap space no matter what the cap is in 2011 or 2012 whenever we start playing football again.

It could be in the area of $60 to $70 million. A smart team can buy a whole side of a team, offense or defense, for that amount.

Assuming there are free agents available who we will spend for. It might be the best guys are ours (like in the case of Peppers) who we aren't replacing which further drains our talent pool.

I understand things totally but some folks here seem to only see one side of the picture.

[Fiz]

lol holy poo PantherFan4Life is having jake delhomme flashbacks.

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/19805-my-two-cents-jake-will-and-should-still-be-our-man.html

this is after last years opener lol

First of all Sunday's turnovers were clearly not all Jake's fault. Like someone else has already stated you could have put Payton Manning, Brady or another QB in those situations and the same thing would have happened. The O Line stunk and none of our QBs had any protection. If it wasn't obvious before the benching, it should be when the next two QBs had the same exact problem Jake did.

[Guest Jacob3-89]

tl;dr

[Fiz]

If you wanted to bench him after his first game, it would have been more understanding. But Matt's performance Sunday was actually a pretty big improvement over the first week and the only big mistake I saw from him, was the interception.

lol from last week

If Matt blows the next game too, then we can talk about Jimmy. One game is NEVER enough, to judge a player, especially a new QB.

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/43836-some-panther-fans-should-be-ashamed-matts-not-getting-a-fair-shot.html

PF4L you're literally insane.

[panthers55]

Beason would make a fine WILB.

He could probably make the transition given his athletic ability and desire, but he would be somewhat small, might be injury prone given he will be taking on more linemen and still has trouble shedding the blocking of bigger stronger guys. He is not a prototypical 3-4 linebacker and would likely be average in a 3-4. He doesn't have the size, added weight and speed of a Patrick Willis which helps him compensate.

Given we need 4 guys, who else would fit??

[Samuel L. Jackson]

Stfu... all of you...

[HPPantherzfan]

Not if we don't spend the money to sign all of our young players whose contracts are up this year or expiring. By your logic Tampa Bay has been sitting pretty for the past several years since their cap has been at the bottom. But they have sucked because they have no talent. You are assuming that Richardson resumes his olds way of spending and we give big contracts to our young guys. Until he does, we aren't sitting anything. And if we don't play football next year, guys like Williams will still hit free agency and will be able to go elsewhere with no compensation. I would hate to lose Williams, Kalil, and Davis for example which is 2 first rounders and a second with no compensation until the following year at the least because we were sitting pretty not spending money.

Dude seriously you need to stop trying so hard

1) Nothing at all is guaranteed at this point. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN. You can speculate and throw any numbers around all you like...still means nothing

2) TB's cap has nothing to do with the Panthers, we are sitting pretty NOW because IF something does happen and there IS a 20% reduction THEN we have a HUGE space, monetarily speaking of course, to work with! TB just refused to spend money! How can you even compare the two situations? WOW

3) So, In a CBA disputed year, Richardson decides to save money...other than that he has ALWAYS SPENT MONEY! The man is doing this for a reason. Question for you, has he ever been afraid to spend money in the past? I mean just last year we paid a man 1 million dollars per game! Show me evidence that I shouldn't believe he will go back to his old way once the CBA agreement has been reached! You take one year, where the man has a reason, and automatically assume he will not! Makes sense to me!

4) You would hate to lose Moore too, guess what, it’s the NFL and like it or not the NFL is a business. When we lose players at the end of this year it should come to no surprise to anyone, we lose players almost every year! Your desire, or mine for that matter, has no bearing on who the TEAM decides to offer contracts to and who they don’t.

5) There is a reason we are here on this message board trying to convince each other of this and that and they are running the Front Office of an NFL Franchise! I’m not sayin they might know more about football than we do, especially you, I’m just sayin………….

[Fiz]

Dan Connor would be the ideal SILB.

Not sure what you do with Davis. Maybe he could bulk up? Hardy, Brown, and Johnson? Eesh.

They also don't have anyone that could play nose tackle.

That'd be a shitty situation.

[panthers55]

The general consensus is that there will be a new cap. I haven't read too many articles that were suggesting the possibility of the opposite.

And while I agree that you can manipulate cap, if an owner really wants to spend money, there were years where we really could not make many moves because we were pushing the higher limit of the cap. I don't see Richardson as being the most generous owner, but I do think he may be getting some unfair criticism right now, that may look like he's just being cheap when in fact he could be very well implementing the strategy I talked about in the begining.

If after the new coaching staff arrives he continues to act like this, I think at that point we can point our fingers and call him cheap. Until then though, I say we just need to wait and see.

Then you need to read more, there has been plenty of talk about not having a cap or a floor. The funny part is that initially the players were talking about no cap and now the owners are once they saw how much money they saved this year.

As for criticism to Richardson, until he spends the money the evidence is that he is being cheap this year. You can make all the excuses you want but right now he has signed no one long term while other teams have done so despite the supposed 30% limitations. And from what I can see on the field on the first 2 weeks, he gutted a lot of leadership and heart from this team when he made all the cuts.

You can wait and see, I will say he is cheap until he shows me that I am wrong. So far he has done nothing to dissuade that.

[panthers55]

Dan Connor would be the ideal SILB.

Not sure what you do with Davis. Maybe he could bulk up? Hardy, Brown, and Johnson? Eesh.

They also don't have anyone that could play nose tackle.

That'd be a shitty situation.

Doubt it will happen so hopefully we donn't have to worry about it.

[PantherFanForLife]

oh jesus christ I've picked a fight with a brick wall

I'm not going to waste my time in going through every one of those "points". I think it's pretty obvious by now which one of us is more of a brick wall and is showing bias there.

Please don't lump me in with Moore haters. No one on this board was more vocal in starting him than I have been for the past three years.

Ok fine, then can I lump you in with the group that has a tendency to get behind a guy way too fast and then two weeks later drop him just as fast? Happens quite regularly with some on here.

where did he say this again? And great, you've managed to name two.

Article in the Charlotte Observer. I posted the quote awhile back in another thread. Yeah and those two would have directly resulted in a 14 POINT SWING in our favor. Matt's other mistakes directly resulted in loss of down, incomplete, or turnover. One type I happen to agree is worth benching for, and unlike the first game, Matt was not responsible this time for those(i.e. interception in the redzone). The other types of mistakes, say second degree mistakes which he completed his share of, I don't.

every single article.

every

single

one.

seriously what middle school are you in?

Actually I went to college, and have learned enough debating skills to know when someone picks on grammar in order to avoid the bigger point. You refuse to admitt the MAJORITY consensus on that issue, is against your argument. The MAJORITY of people view Fox as a different Fox this year, even if you don't. And even if, it's not exactly "EVERY" article. There's enough of it out there that the sentiment is quite clear.

[Razzy]

The victim: Steve Smith.

In all of this Steve Smith is the biggest loser. The only major superstar veteran left on this team that will not be the same on the other side of the lockout. With him not having a great QB and another #2 receiver for most of his career and even though now he may possibly have that in Clausen, he still has no team for possibly another 2 years. He will be too old before he ever gets the chance to win a Superbowl with the Panthers. One of the greatest receivers that deserves a ring to never get one? Sad but probably true unless there is no lockout next year, and we trade him...or a miracle happens this year.

I was thinking about that one the other day. Smitty is already starting on the backside of his career and a year off isn't going to help any. It's absolutely essential that this franchise bring in another big name WR sometime between now and 2013.