Scourton isn't signed (& apparently it's a thing)

[Basbear]

5 hours ago, panthers320 said:

49ers 2nd rounder just signed with 9million of the 10million guaranteed, He was drafterd 43rd overall.

 

4 hours ago, Icege said:

Wonder if this gets any movement on Shough's deal like @Basbear mentioned earlier.

 

Last years 43rd pick- max Melton got 7mill out of 8.8mill guaranteed. Rough number that's 79% of the contract guaranteed,  Alfred Collins got 90%......but I just looked at the numbers its only 8.3 out of 10.3. Its more like 80% is guaranteed, which is nearly the same as last years Melton's contract. It's normal from past years, glad this mess is nearly over. 

 

Honestly I'm shocked 49er got Collins to sign, others 2nd rounders have signed too. I mean for panther fan reason I hope Tyler stands firm and the goes into the season unsigned....... But this super helps Panthers with Nic at 51. Broncos signed havey at 60 2day as well, others have signed too. Mike green just signed too. 

[Basbear]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/97858/mike-green

 

*no number on the guaranteed....I'm sooo sick of typing that word....

 

I just read a couple of pieces stating Collins deal is for 88% or 90%, so sportac maybe wrong with their numbers. Maybe rushed....... If its 90% that's a 10-11% increase within one year, that is a massive change if its the real number. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Basbear

[tukafan21]

2 hours ago, TD alt said:

I'm not cap expert, but I asked Google if a larger signing bonus affect an NFL cap, and here is the answer:

Yes, a larger signing bonus affects the NFL cap, but its impact is spread out. While the player receives the full bonus upfront, the team prorates it evenly over the life of the contract, up to a maximum of five years, for salary cap accounting purposes. This helps teams manage their cap space in the present by pushing some of the cap hit into future years.
 

I said "larger," but any size bonus can be applied. A player gets their money up front indeed, but the team still has to pay for it over time.

I think google is confusing signing bonus with guaranteed money.

If you get a guarantee of say $10 million, it doesn’t matter if the signing bonus is $5 or $8 million, it’s the $10 million number that affects the cap, as the signing bonus is always just a portion of the guaranteed money anyways.

And again, I’ll admit I’m not 100% sure about it, but I’m pretty sure it is the case.

[Basbear]

11 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I think google is confusing signing bonus with guaranteed money.

If you get a guarantee of say $10 million, it doesn’t matter if the signing bonus is $5 or $8 million, it’s the $10 million number that affects the cap, as the signing bonus is always just a portion of the guaranteed money anyways.

And again, I’ll admit I’m not 100% sure about it, but I’m pretty sure it is the case.

It is all confusing and layered. SB is the cash you get very soon within weeks or in simple terms, its what you get to sign the paper work. Players and agents can agree on contract but what to "wait" to sign......teams don't like that cause you can "Carlos Boozer" yourself. In order to get that ink dry, while keeping the contract the same, portion it as a bonus to "sign" and get the funds with ________ .

 

* But Ive seen worded contracts that split the SB or a 20% to a later date. The beans counters can fill in the details about why certain dates are better and save the team money.. Theres tricks to the trade and accounting is full of them. 

 

Ugh another big layer, is SB can be used to manipulate cap and players. Ill try to give a example that makes enough sense. Believe it or not having a owner like Tepper is a cheat code for this. He has cash in hand, where as Mark Davis had problem making pay roll and had to move the team to Vegas....... Tepper can give you 100,000,000 SB right now and the team can spread out the cap hit. Another owner doesn't have or want to give the player 100,000,000 in cash, but offered the same guaranteed contract in roster bonuses fully guaranteed over the next few years........ Which one do you want??? Everyone wants the money now, not before another inflation waves hits in 2 years. So it does 'pay" to have a owner like tepper that's able to have real cash on hand, while it also works GREAT for cap help.

Heres a good video, if you can stand coked up pat and mask look-a-like AJ

 

 

[tukafan21]

9 minutes ago, Basbear said:

It is all confusing and layered. SB is the cash you get very soon within weeks or in simple terms, its what you get to sign the paper work. Players and agents can agree on contract but what to "wait" to sign......teams don't like that cause you can "Carlos Boozer" yourself. In order to get that ink dry, while keeping the contract the same, portion it as a bonus to "sign" and get the funds with ________ .

 

* But Ive seen worded contracts that split the SB or a 20% to a later date. The beans counters can fill in the details about why certain dates are better and save the team money.. Theres tricks to the trade and accounting is full of them. 

 

Ugh another big layer, is SB can be used to manipulate cap and players. Ill try to give a example that makes enough sense. Believe it or not having a owner like Tepper is a cheat code for this. He has cash in hand, where as Mark Davis had problem making pay roll and had to move the team to Vegas....... Tepper can give you 100,000,000 SB right now and the team can spread out the cap hit. Another owner doesn't have or want to give the player 100,000,000 in cash, but offered the same guaranteed contract in roster bonuses fully guaranteed over the next few years........ Which one do you want??? Everyone wants the money now, not before another inflation waves hits in 2 years. So it does 'pay" to have a owner like tepper that's able to have real cash on hand, while it also works GREAT for cap help.

Heres a good video, if you can stand coked up pat and mask look-a-like AJ

 

 

Right, so basically what I said in my first post about this last night.

Tepper needs to use that big wallet of his in one of the few ways it can be used in the NFL given the cap.  

Give Scourton a bigger signing bonus but not a fully guaranteed deal.

Everyone wins in that scenario as if Scourton is smart and hires good money people, he'll take that bigger signing bonus and use it to make more money in the end over the next 4 years than if he just had his fully guaranteed deal and a smaller signing bonus.

[TD alt]

42 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Right, so basically what I said in my first post about this last night.

Tepper needs to use that big wallet of his in one of the few ways it can be used in the NFL given the cap.  

Give Scourton a bigger signing bonus but not a fully guaranteed deal.

Everyone wins in that scenario as if Scourton is smart and hires good money people, he'll take that bigger signing bonus and use it to make more money in the end over the next 4 years than if he just had his fully guaranteed deal and a smaller signing bonus.

From what I gather, sure it allows you more room in that you can manipulate the cap more due to smaller prorated amounts to fit salaries in, but for cap purposes, you're still on the hook for the money at the end of the day. 

 

"ChatGPT
You said:
What are the advantages for NFL teams to sign larger signing bonuses?
ChatGPT said:
NFL teams often use large signing bonuses as a strategic tool in contracts. While they cost real cash up front, they offer several advantages, especially when it comes to salary cap management, player retention, and negotiation leverage. Here's a breakdown of the benefits:

1. Salary Cap Flexibility
Signing bonuses are prorated over the life of the contract (up to 5 years) for salary cap purposes.

This allows teams to spread out the cap hit, even if the player receives the money immediately.

Example: A $20M signing bonus on a 4-year deal counts only $5M/year against the cap.

2. Attracting Top Talent
Players love signing bonuses because they're guaranteed money paid up front.

Offering a bigger signing bonus can sweeten the deal without inflating yearly salaries.

3. Front-Loading Real Cash, Not Cap
Teams with strong cash flow can pay big bonuses now while minimizing the immediate cap hit.

Useful for teams trying to build around rookie QB contracts or with flexible cash budgets.

4. Locking in Key Players
Larger bonuses make it harder for a player to be released early due to dead cap consequences.

This can create more job security for the player and roster continuity for the team.

5. Leverage in Restructures
Big signing bonuses create future cap hits via proration.

Teams can later restructure deals (e.g., convert salary to bonus) to create even more cap space.

6. Competitive Edge
In free agency, a team offering more guaranteed cash up front often wins the bidding war, even if the total contract value is lower than another team's.

Key Caveat:
Large signing bonuses increase dead cap risk if the player is cut or traded early."

 

I think that roster bonuses can be a useful tool if you're trying to keep players in by manipulating numbers and spreading the hit over time, but I don't think that it's something that you want to use unless it's "necessary." I don't know that you want to get into signing rookies on roster bonuses, as the bust rate is relatively high.

 

 

[kungfoodude]

On 7/16/2025 at 10:04 AM, TLGPanthersFan said:

Second round picks should never get fully guaranteed contracts. They are not worth the risk. 

That is just Panthers history pain speaking.

[tukafan21]

24 minutes ago, TD alt said:

From what I gather, sure it allows you more room in that you can manipulate the cap more due to smaller prorated amounts to fit salaries in, but for cap purposes, you're still on the hook for the money at the end of the day. 

 

"ChatGPT
You said:
What are the advantages for NFL teams to sign larger signing bonuses?
ChatGPT said:
NFL teams often use large signing bonuses as a strategic tool in contracts. While they cost real cash up front, they offer several advantages, especially when it comes to salary cap management, player retention, and negotiation leverage. Here's a breakdown of the benefits:

1. Salary Cap Flexibility
Signing bonuses are prorated over the life of the contract (up to 5 years) for salary cap purposes.

This allows teams to spread out the cap hit, even if the player receives the money immediately.

Example: A $20M signing bonus on a 4-year deal counts only $5M/year against the cap.

2. Attracting Top Talent
Players love signing bonuses because they're guaranteed money paid up front.

Offering a bigger signing bonus can sweeten the deal without inflating yearly salaries.

3. Front-Loading Real Cash, Not Cap
Teams with strong cash flow can pay big bonuses now while minimizing the immediate cap hit.

Useful for teams trying to build around rookie QB contracts or with flexible cash budgets.

4. Locking in Key Players
Larger bonuses make it harder for a player to be released early due to dead cap consequences.

This can create more job security for the player and roster continuity for the team.

5. Leverage in Restructures
Big signing bonuses create future cap hits via proration.

Teams can later restructure deals (e.g., convert salary to bonus) to create even more cap space.

6. Competitive Edge
In free agency, a team offering more guaranteed cash up front often wins the bidding war, even if the total contract value is lower than another team's.

Key Caveat:
Large signing bonuses increase dead cap risk if the player is cut or traded early."

 

I think that roster bonuses can be a useful tool if you're trying to keep players in by manipulating numbers and spreading the hit over time, but I don't think that it's something that you want to use unless it's "necessary." I don't know that you want to get into signing rookies on roster bonuses, as the bust rate is relatively high.

 

 

No, you're not on the hook for a larger than normal signing bonus because you're already on the hook for the guaranteed money.

This is the problem with things like Chat GTP, it makes assumptions in a vacuum that aren't correct in the whole picture, or even look at it in different ways.

It's basically looking at the signing bonus of a Free Agent, not a rookie who has a set value for the slot they were drafted in.  Because yes, for a FA, the more you add to the signing bonus, it does make the guaranteed money increase right along with it.

[Basbear]

The deal with spreading the cap hit over five years, is the cap increase around 10% per year(another formula).

 

Soooooooooooooo if the cap is 150 this year and 225 in five years, the 20 million in the future is a lower cap hit due to growth. 

 

It's just another layer and the saints used that method to a master class with most of the contracts while Brees was passing for 5k.