Mayock on Gabbert

[mav1234]

Let me ask this...would you trust hurney an Rivera to make a judgment on his character after actually meeting him. If he is as flawed as you suggest I'm sure he will not be the pick. But if they determine that his character is not a concern then it's a no brainer. Would you accept their decision?

I'm not sure why everyone thinks that it's a no brainer if his character isn't involved.

The pluses for Newton are nearly purely based on potential. What he did at Auburn is not something you can expect to see in the pro game. He has to learn a lot, adjust a lot, and play a nearly totally different style of football... at least in theory.

There is so little out there about him it is really hard to know where he should go. The reason people are so up and down on him is because of how many questions there are but also how high his potential could possibly be.

[monstercat]

Yes, I would feel a lot better about him. I teach college students and I can tell you that character is a huge indicator of success.

I love Cam Newton from the neck down. He is a stud with all the tools. However, the 5 inches between those Shrek ears is problematic and will be to whomever takes him.

We're not asking him to be a world renowned physicist though, we're asking him to play QB. And BTW, Cam threw for a higher percentage in is first time as a div. 1 starter than Luck did, and he averaged more yards per attempt. Luck also had more reliable receivers than Cam did, IMO. His TE's are about as good as I've seen anywhere.

Honestly, I wonder just how often the average NFL QB actually throws to their 3rd or 4th options? I just don't believe it happens as often as people think, because even the best passers still need time in the pocket to make that many reads. After about 4-5 seconds, the QB usually either gets sacked, or he starts to scramble, and when that happens, it pretty much becomes back yard football anyway because the routes have already run their course.

[DaCityKats]

This is not true. There have been plenty of plays the last two seasons where Gabbert has escaped pressure, made a guy miss, kept his eyes down field and found a receiver for a big gain. The thing is, he has poor footwork in the pocket and sometimes has trouble feeling pressure - especially edge pressure. This is not really unusual for a college QB.

The thing is, his pocket awareness needs to improve, and that CAN be coached and learned. It just requires a staff capable of teaching.

Someone earlier said something about how of course Cam didn't do as much because he was only in his offense for a year... that's kind of exactly the point. It's not that he necessarily can't do the mental things, it's that nobody has seen him do them much because of lack of film and the type of offense he ran.

Edit: I do think Gabbert is the best QB in the draft but I do not think he is worth taking #1 overall, and I really like him. =P If we did though I'd be happy and hope that our new coaches can bring a QB along.

huh in what game? when i have watched him, he pannicks when pressure comes in his face.cam has done those same things but yet it gets dismissed because the wr was wide open.

[MHS831]

i liked luck as well, but hating on another guy like your last paragraph is just retarded. people come from different backgrounds and situations so talking down on someones house bringing is sad. everybody is not lucky to be born with a silver spoon in there mouth.

plus he won a nc against that team that beat lucks.

That is not hating--that is the summary of our concerns about him. I do respect your expertise in the area of "retarded" however.

Retarded is ignoring themultiple red flags with the first overall pick. Retarded is giving someone who steals and cheats, someone who thinks he is an icon and has no remorse for his indiscretions, $50 million to come here and take over the most important position in football. Retarted is speculating that this person will work to learn a complex system when he has never shown the ability in the past. Retarted is knowing that nearly every successful QB in the NFL does not have these characteristics when nearly every QB in NFL history with a similar skill set and issues has busted.

Retarted is endorsing this guy before you know as much as you will know about his background and cognitive abilities.

I do not expect everyone to agree on the importance of character because character is not important to everybody. But it is to GMs and personnel directors--for a reason.

[DaCityKats]

Folks, on paper and at combines, he looks great. I hope the interviews go well and he is as great as you all think he is. However, at this time, all we have is physical superiority at a position that features intelligence and character as key indicators of success. TOO EARLY to plan the welcome Cam parade. I am saying that right now there is too much risk to be pimping him---that is his father's job. Character and football intelligence matter more than arm strength and tight spirals. The boy has issues. Give him the keys to the castle if you want, but I would not let him past the guards without an escort.

but you dont know his football iq.some believe he gets it, i just hope the fo do their homework on him. and grow a pair and take a chance for once. scared money dont make no money.(sounded nice but is true.)

[MHS831]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks that it's a no brainer if his character isn't involved.

The pluses for Newton are nearly purely based on potential. What he did at Auburn is not something you can expect to see in the pro game. He has to learn a lot, adjust a lot, and play a nearly totally different style of football... at least in theory.

There is so little out there about him it is really hard to know where he should go. The reason people are so up and down on him is because of how many questions there are but also how high his potential could possibly be.

Yes. Very accurate. But to have made a decision now--before the combine and without much more than highlight reels and his academic rap sheet is a bit premature. This is not monopoly money. This pick could be the first step in our trek to the super bowl. I just get the feeling that Cam thinks it is his time to get paid, that he has arrived. He wants to promote the positive and ignore the negatives. Working on weaknesses is how he will become an NFL QB.

[DaCityKats]

That is not hating--that is the summary of our concerns about him. I do respect your expertise in the area of "retarded" however.

Retarded is ignoring themultiple red flags with the first overall pick. Retarded is giving someone who steals and cheats, someone who thinks he is an icon and has no remorse for his indiscretions, $50 million to come here and take over the most important position in football. Retarted is speculating that this person will work to learn a complex system when he has never shown the ability in the past. Retarted is knowing that nearly every successful QB in the NFL does not have these characteristics when nearly every QB in NFL history with a similar skill set and issues has busted.

Retarted is endorsing this guy before you know as much as you will know about his background and cognitive abilities.

I do not expect everyone to agree on the importance of character because character is not important to everybody. But it is to GMs and personnel directors--for a reason.

if character was that important to gms then over half of the guys putting a uni on would not be in the league.

retarded is looking throw someone situation not knowing what they been threw to get to were they are. you writing him off because of things that happened when he was 18 years old.

and you keep throwing the money think out there, like its yours.

[teeray]

Yes. Very accurate. But to have made a decision now--before the combine and without much more than highlight reels and his academic rap sheet is a bit premature. This is not monopoly money. This pick could be the first step in our trek to the super bowl. I just get the feeling that Cam thinks it is his time to get paid, that he has arrived. He wants to promote the positive and ignore the negatives. Working on weaknesses is how he will become an NFL QB.

I think a lot of us assume it would be an easy decision because he is already number one on at 6 teams list even with the other shenanigans.

[panthers55]

I don't know how smart he is because I have never talked to him. Nor do you all know that he is smart. Ha! Now you guys are in the arena you should be investigating. Please read all of this before responding.

I think he has shown the propensity to make stupid personal decisions. Or was the cheating ordeal that caused him to transfer to a junior college not his fault? Why did he try to destroy the evidence (stolen computer) AFTER police had taken the serial # off it? How could he NOT know that his father was his college agent and why would an intelligent person call himself an ICON as a result of 14 college games when he knows he has baggage and has not played a down in the NFL? All examples of stupidity.

But stupid off the field is not always the same as stupid on the field. Can CN break down a defense? If so, where did he learn it? AT UF? no. Jr college? no. Auburn? Not in that system. Was he born with this knowlege?

But you huggers want evidence that he DOES NOT know how to read an NFL defense. I would say that you could be the smartest medical student ever, but if you have not been trained in brain surgery, you probably cannot do it. Here is your evidence:

1. Auburn's offense is known for its simplicity. 1 Presnap read. Not open? Run or look to dump to outlet in flats. I coached high school offenses where we asked more from our QB.

2. THey would line up rather quickly and on many pass plays, Cam would look to the sideline. He was getting the play which was called based on the alignment of the defense. He then knew the pre-snap read and a simple progression.

In the NFL, your reads are pre snap and post-snap. Because play action is such a huge part of the offense, he would have to turn his BACK to the defense during the fake and then read the coverage afterwards. Has Cam ever shown the ability to read the coverage post snap from the shotgun? Watch tape and see how many times his head switches from one receiver to another while in the pocket. Good luck with that.

Look, I am sure you all have made your decisions. When NFL experts like Mayock and former Personnel directors point out things and you all call them stupid, I don't expect to change your minds with logic and common sense.

I certainly hope that you don't prejudge all of your college students before you have any facts or real information. That is simple prejudice whether it is intellectual or otherwise. As a college professor you should also be acutely aware that freshmen and sophomore all do dumb things and make mistakes. That is what happens when they are away from home for the first time. By the time they are seniors they have more of an awareness of what to do and make better decisions.

What you have said is simply your own prejudice and not supported by facts at all. He picked up Auburn's offense in a matter of months not years like most guys. Sure it was simple but what do you expect. His personal coach who is working with him every day has stated he is very bright, takes instruction well, and picks things very easily. Yeah this is the same guy who has worked with Roethlisburger and other professional quarterbacks. In fact all his coaches have said he is bright and picks things up quickly.

So it must be your own personal prejudice to continue to assert that he isn't intelligent or can't or won't pick things up when eveyone who works with him says the complete opposite??

Modern offense uses the shotgun more than ever before. There are several guys like Brees and Manning who use the shotgun up to 75% of the time. So the looking away is a red herring. Plus again you apparently forget that he was in the Auburn system for 1 year. In high school and at Binn he was in a pocket passer setting taking snaps from center. So yeah he can do all the things he didn't do at Auburn. It isn't as if he wouldn't have to work on those things at the pro level anyway given that the defenses are more complex and constantly switch even after the snap. Except for ours under Fox.

When people like you selectively pick Mayock while ignoring Whitfield or Brandt you show that you are the one with your mind made up who just selectively pick what fits their mindset already instead of being open to new things.

Pretty shotty for a professor who is supposed to be open to new ideas and things and willing to learn. Unless like some professors, you think you already know it all.

[teeray]

Folks, on paper and at combines, he looks great. I hope the interviews go well and he is as great as you all think he is. However, at this time, all we have is physical superiority at a position that features intelligence and character as key indicators of success. TOO EARLY to plan the welcome Cam parade. I am saying that right now there is too much risk to be pimping him---that is his father's job. Character and football intelligence matter more than arm strength and tight spirals. The boy has issues. Give him the keys to the castle if you want, but I would not let him past the guards without an escort.

Character and football IQ?? Alex Smith says hi. :seeya:

[mav1234]

huh in what game? when i have watched him, he pannicks when pressure comes in his face.cam has done those same things but yet it gets dismissed because the wr was wide open.

Go look at the Mayock clip against Colorado and watch.

Cam is not running the same offense as Gabbert, and Gabbert gets plenty of criticism too and very very few people see him as going #1 overall.

[panthers55]

Yes. Very accurate. But to have made a decision now--before the combine and without much more than highlight reels and his academic rap sheet is a bit premature. This is not monopoly money. This pick could be the first step in our trek to the super bowl. I just get the feeling that Cam thinks it is his time to get paid, that he has arrived. He wants to promote the positive and ignore the negatives. Working on weaknesses is how he will become an NFL QB.

So didn't you make up your mind based on some guy's evaluation of what he thinks after watching some tape but not interviewing him or doing any in depth evaluation. Sounds as if your decision is premature as well. And isn't Newton working every day on his perceived negatives with a professional NFL QB coach. He is apparently doing all the things you think he should be doing. Yet you are still negative and have devoted pages finding and extolling his negatives.

Seems you keep up the same mantra regardless of the facts which contradict it. So if he rises higher on Mayock's board after the combine do you change your mind or simply switch to the next guy who is bashing him?? On the other hand after hearing him do the Texas 2 step in explaining how Gabbert wasn't throwing but is still his favorite sounds as if he struggles to change his mind as well after it is made up no matter what new evidence presents itself.

[teeray]

Then tell me REASONS you feel good about Cam Newton --Don't forget, we are talking about the #1 pick and a position that would set the team back years if you are wrong--in these areas that are historically key indicators for QB success:

Football IQ: (when has he displayed it, where did he learn it? How long do you think it takes to learn to read an NFL defense well enough to perform at a high level? Oh, and lets not forget that he, after one year in a simple offense, thinks he is READY for the NFL.)

Character: (When has he ever displayed good character? Even in the championship game, a game in which he struggled at times, he tried to score when the coach told him to take a knee, he was upset AFTER the game--selfish self-promotion?

Work Ethic: (remember, he thinks he is an icon)

Opinions of NFL experts: (not reporters--people who know how to evaluate talent because they have experience doing so.) Without looking, I will estimate that for every 1 you find that say the Panthers should take Newton, you will find 3-5 who say the risk is too big)

People who ACTUALLY KNOW him have nothing but great things to say about him. They often times actually point out him being humble and a hard worker. Kinda like the principal of the elementary school that he goes to once a week to work with kids. She thinks he's great.

If you value the opinions more of people that don;t know the kid that is your prerogative. I just happen to listen to the people that have actually been around the guy.

As far as learning the defenses and what not. EVERY QB HAS TO DO THAT. Unless you think Cam is flat stupid he can learn that just like EVERY QB does.

As far as the experts. You are cherry picking who you trust. They all are pretty good at what they do, but you shouldn't disregard one opinion as an idiot bc he doesn't agree. Gil Brandt did this for a living too. Many people hold Trent Dilfer in VERY HIGH REGARD concerning evaluating QBs.

[DaCityKats]

colorado i will try to find that game, but CU is terrible. i watched the iowa game and he looked decent at times but boy when the pressure got to him he looked like a different qb.