First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

[cranky]

2 hours ago, TN05 said:

Through 6 games this guy is 2-4, averaging 202 yards a game with 7 touchdowns and 7 turnovers. His AY/A (5.91) is worse than Bryce (6.31), as are his yards per completion (10.1 vs 10.2).

He's worse than Bryce in basically every category except for yards (he's averaging 202, Bryce is averaging 195 this year) and completion percentage (65% vs 63%). Oh, and he's losing two-thirds of his games (2-4).

You can't think Bryce is a bad QB and that Shough is good.

Your missing the real stat. Shough is 6.5" -  Bryce is 5'10". That's all you need to know.

[TN05]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

he is 2-3 as a starter

in his starts he is 67% at 216 per game.  That's as a freaking rookie on a bad team vs a 3rd year guy with a pretty solid group around him.  

you got to separate out starts vs the pure per game average because a game with like 2 pass attempts and zero yards completely fugs up the per game stats and doesn't give you a good look

He played most of another game and lost it. I didn’t count the game with 0 yards (because that would be ridiculous). If I did, his stats would be lower than Bryce.

[CRA]

11 hours ago, TN05 said:

He played most of another game and lost it. I didn’t count the game with 0 yards (because that would be ridiculous). If I did, his stats would be lower than Bryce.

well, you will have to excuse me with not crediting wins or losses to players that factually aren't credited to them.   That's not what we do. 

Rattler had 21 pass attempts that game....which is more pass attempts than Bryce Young had in the GB or Rams game.  That wasn't a Shough game.  The 2nd round rookie came in for Saints final drive of the 3rd quarter down multiple scores.    

so yeah, if you want to be objective about Shough this year, you evaluate him as a starter.    Gameplans on both sides of the ball for him.  

[TN05]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

well, you will have to excuse me with not crediting wins or losses to players that factually aren't credited to them.   That's not what we do. 

Rattler had 21 pass attempts that game....which is more pass attempts than Bryce Young had in the GB or Rams game.  That wasn't a Shough game.  The 2nd round rookie came in for Saints final drive of the 3rd quarter down multiple scores.    

so yeah, if you want to be objective about Shough this year, you evaluate him as a starter.    Gameplans on both sides of the ball for him.  

Imagine gassing up a 2-4 QB for a terrible division rival with stats worse than our QB in every category except raw yards per game

Edited 6 hours ago by TN05

[CRA]

3 hours ago, TN05 said:

Imagine gassing up a 2-4 QB for a terrible division rival with stats worse than our QB in every category except raw yards per game

imagine thinking that talking about our next opponent is "gassing up" someone.... and then lying about basic info because it's not flattering to the league's worst starting QB since he arrived. 

as a starter he is 2-3 (just a fact)

as a starter vs Bryce this year

pass yards per game - Shough

rush yards per game - Shough

comp % - Shough 

QB rating - Shough

yards/per attempt - Shough

and Shough is only good for a 2nd round rookie thrust into the gig on a bad team.   He is getting graded on a curve of what he is.  And he won the last head to head vs us, and looked like the best QB on the field that day.  

there are a billion red flags when it comes to Bryce Young.  This is just another.  

[Mr. Scot]

19 hours ago, CRA said:

And our RBs are better.  Not sure what cherry picking out our highest paid OL in the NFL isn’t a full strength…..has to do with the Saints kid doing what he is doing though.  Thats just exists on its on.  Good job by a rookie on a weak roster.  We have seen rookies on weak rosters deliver horrific play 

Our RBs sure didn't look better last time.

And given that you cite our OL injuries as if they weren't considered, I'm curious what you think the metaphor "MASH unit of an OL"  meant exactly

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Our RBs sure didn't look better last time.

And given that you cite our OL injuries as if they weren't considered, I'm curious what you think the metaphor "MASH unit of an OL"  meant exactly

Here is where you are…

for purely the sake of arguing with me you are willing to suggest the 2025 Saints RBs might not be better than the 2025 Panthers RBs lol

Saints have the 28th ranked rush attack.  We are top 10.   The Saints haven’t had a 100 yard rusher the entire season.  We have seen franchise best performances in a franchise known for running the rock.

and see above for what our OL is also clearly better than the Saints.  Hell, Canales being forced into some mashups has often made it even stronger at times 

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

Here is where you are…

for purely the sake of arguing with me you are willing to suggest the 2025 Saints RBs might not be better than the 2025 Panthers RBs lol

Saints have the 28th ranked rush attack.  We are top 10.   The Saints haven’t had a 100 yard rusher the entire season.  We have seen franchise best performances in a franchise known for running the rock.

and see above for what our OL is also clearly better than the Saints.  Hell, Canales being forced into some mashups has often made it even stronger at times 

Yeah and Phil Snow has the second best defense in the league

I'm reminded of 2015 where we used to build up huge leads in the first half just to wind up winning by less than a single score because our second half performance stunk.

We built up some pretty good rushing stats over an early stretch in the year. Didn't really help us against the Saints though, or in some of our other losses.

Hell, go back and look at past Super Bowl winners. Is it always the team that's ranked first in one category or another? After all, stat rankings always tell you who the best team is, right?

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah and Phil Snow has the second best defense in the league

I'm reminded of 2015 where we used to build up huge leads in the first half just to wind up winning by less than a single score because our second half performance stunk.

We built up some pretty good rushing stats over an early stretch in the year. Didn't really help us against the Saints though, or in some of our other losses.

Hell, go back and look at past Super Bowl winners. Is it always the team that's ranked first in one category or another? After all, stat rankings always tell you who the best team is, right?

So...yeah, the snark and whataboutism really just works as a dodge here.  So is the, but did it win us this game rhetoric or stats don't always tell the truth (because that not actually in play in this specific convo) 

So again, I'll lay it out one last time....are you actually willing to argue for the sake of arguing the Saints RBs in 2025 are better than ours?   and their OL?  Is that what you are doing here.  

[Mr. Scot]

30 minutes ago, CRA said:

So...yeah, the snark and whataboutism really just works as a dodge here.  So is the, but did it win us this game rhetoric or stats don't always tell the truth (because that not actually in play in this specific convo) 

So again, I'll lay it out one last time....are you actually willing to argue for the sake of arguing the Saints RBs in 2025 are better than ours?   and their OL?  Is that what you are doing here.  

How many people outside this board do you think would pick Chubba and banged up Rico ovwr Alvan Kamara?

At this stage of the season, and operating in the real world rather than off of a spreadsheet, they outperformed us in direct competition and just beat the team leading the division.

Is our OL banged up? Sure. So is theirs.

Is anybody gonna make any allowances for that? Maybe say "You know what? You guys take some time to heal and we'll play when you're at full strength" Kinda doubt it.

Where we rank over a season's worth of stats doesn'tnmean sh-t when the teams take the field.

Edited 1 hour ago by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

How many people outside this board do you think would pick Chubba and banged up Rico ovwr Alvan Kamara?

At this stage of the season, and operating in the real world rather than off of a spreadsheet, they outperformed us in direct competition and just beat the team leading the division.

Is our OL banged up? Sure. So is theirs.

Is anybody gonna make any allowances for that? Maybe say "You know what? You guys take some time to heal and we'll play when you're at full strength" Kinda doubt it.

Where we rank over a season's worth of stats doesn'tnmean sh-t when the teams take the field.

So I think I have unlocked your puzzle.  Bryce has better talent around him than Shough.  But you feel the need to argue against me.....so you are presenting that if the stars align just right on 12/14/2025 you might get to say on one particular day Shough has better talent around him....even though that isn't an accurate reflection of anything we have witnessed on the year w/ what the Panthers and Saints have supported their QB with. 

I think most football savvy people would take 2025 Rico/Hubbard over the present day variant of Kamara.  Only thing in Rico's way of late is Canales via bad gameplans or fixation of putting Rico in his place for criticizing his play calling in public. 

Kamara is 30.  Worst season of his career.  Worst ypc of his career.   1 rush TDs.  Zero 100 yard ush games.  You being extremely generous for 1 Saints RB and very harsh on a duo of Panther RBs for this arguement.

[TN05]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

imagine thinking that talking about our next opponent is "gassing up" someone.... and then lying about basic info because it's not flattering to the league's worst starting QB since he arrived. 

as a starter he is 2-3 (just a fact)

as a starter vs Bryce this year

pass yards per game - Shough

rush yards per game - Shough

comp % - Shough 

QB rating - Shough

yards/per attempt - Shough

and Shough is only good for a 2nd round rookie thrust into the gig on a bad team.   He is getting graded on a curve of what he is.  And he won the last head to head vs us, and looked like the best QB on the field that day.  

there are a billion red flags when it comes to Bryce Young.  This is just another.  

The fact you're having to rely on "rushing yards per game" (he is averaging 18, Bryce is averaging 10) here is really telling lmao.

I already gave the clear advanced differences. Shough is playing worse than Bryce. You are literally gassing up a worse, 2-4 QB for a rival team and I find that incredibly funny.

Edited 1 hour ago by TN05

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

So I think I have unlocked your puzzle.  Bryce has better talent around him than Shough.  But you feel the need to argue against me.....so you are presenting that if the stars align just right on 12/14/2025 you might get to say on one particular day Shough has better talent around him....even though that isn't an accurate reflection of anything we have witnessed on the year w/ what the Panthers and Saints have supported their QB with. 

I think most football savvy people would take 2025 Rico/Hubbard over the present day variant of Kamara.  Only thing in Rico's way of late is Canales via bad gameplans or fixation of putting Rico in his place for criticizing his play calling in public. 

Kamara is certainly later in his career but he's not exactly chopped liver. Again, outside this fanbase i doubt he'd lose that contest.

As far as other comparisons:

I'd put Tet McMillan equal with Chris Olave, though I think McMillan might be hitting a bit of a rookie wall. Others may say McMillan is promising but not to that level just yet.

Damian Lewis is equal to or better than Dillon Radunz and Ickey is better than Kelvin Banks, though Banks even as a rookie ain't bad. The left side of our OL wins, but not in a blowout.

On the other side, if he were fully healthy I could argue Taylor Moton over Taliese Fuaga but I don't think he is. The Saints likely take that one for now at least, and probably in the future since Fuaga is younger.

Jalen Coker is getting back to form. Putting him over Dante Perris right now is probably a bit of a stretch but he's still doing well.

So this far, fairly comparable / even.

But here's where it starts to get bad...

Whoever's starting at center this week vs Luke Fortner? Eeehhh, no.

Right guard of the week against Cesar Ruiz? Uh uh.

Any of our TEs vs Juwan Johnson? Don't think so.

Xavier Legette over anybody at all? Oy

So yeah, overall at this point Shough has a better supporting cast around him.

Once Hunt and others are healthy again it becomes a better argument, but as mentioned the league isn't willing to postpone things so we can be at our best.

[CRA]

23 minutes ago, TN05 said:

The fact you're having to rely on "rushing yards per game" (he is averaging 18, Bryce is averaging 10) here is really telling lmao.

I already gave the clear advanced differences. Shough is playing worse than Bryce. You are literally gassing up a worse, 2-4 QB for a rival team and I find that incredibly funny.

I'm not relying on rushing yards per game.  Which is why I presented you with a host of different offensive production and efficiency stats.   You said there was only one.  I shared several. You just cherry picked one of the many shared out.   

and you are still intentionally distorting the most basic facts like wins/losses lol. 

the only gassing up being done here is about Bryce.  Most of the thread is talking about Shough(our next opponent) in very normal terms.