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Go after Shedeur this offseason.

Proudiddy

By Proudiddy,
in Carolina Panthers

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

Statistically perhaps...

Better quarterback? Disagree.

For whatever you think of the Panthers decision making, there's at least an argument to be made for Bryce continuing to start.

Murray is gonna be looking for work, and I seriously doubt any other team is going to offer him a starting job. Also haven't really seen anyone suggesting Arizona should keep him. 

If a guy has better statistics across the board what is the argument for him to be a worse player?

It comes down to attitude and contract. Murray is a dick coasting on talent with a contract the Cardinals need to get out from under while Bryce is a good guy on a rookie contract. But on the field despite basically mailing it in Murray is a better football player.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean...I would love to hear any sort of logic of how Murray could possibly be construed as a worse QB than Bryce.

How are you basing it? If not statistically, winning percentage? Well, I have bad news for your argument.

So are we going, what, eye test? Well, I have even worse news than the last news.

So after that what remains? 

Yes, eye test. And you and I disagree on this.

Murray will almost certainly be a free agent this offseason. Would you want the Panthers to pursue him? 

(I don't)

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

If a guy has better statistics across the board what is the argument for home to be a worse player?

It comes down to attitude and contract. Murray is a dick coasting on talent with a contract the Cardinals need to get out from under while Bryce is a good guy on a rookie contract. But on the field despite basically mailing it in Murray is a better football player.

Statistically speaking Timmy Chang is an NCAA legend.

Likewise, if you go by stats then It can be argued that Sam Darnold and Trevor Lawrence are both better quarterbacks than Baker Mayfield right now. Would you accept that as fact? 

Football is just too complicated and team dependent a game to rely on stats as your top evaluation tool.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yes, eye test. And you and I disagree on this.

Murray will almost certainly be a free agent this offseason. Would you want the Panthers to pursue him? 

(I don't)

As a FREE AGENT, absolutely so. He would be an insanely big upgrade from Bryce. We would finally have a QB capable of performing the upper 90% of NFL starters. Price depending, obviously.

That being said, I would say the odds of Murray being a free agent are a lot smaller than you think. His odds of being moved are far higher than the odds of him being cut. They have until March 22nd to move him or his 2027 base salary is guaranteed.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Statistically speaking Timmy Chang is an NCAA legend.

Likewise, if you go by stats then It can be argued that Sam Darnold and Trevor Lawrence are both better quarterbacks than Baker Mayfield right now. Would you accept that as fact? 

Football is just too complicated and team dependent a game to rely on stats as your top evaluation tool.

Comparing NFL to college isn't exactly an apples vs. apples comparison with the drastically different levels of competition. Timmy Chang didn't face anywhere near the level of competition that guys in major conferences faced.

Right now? With Baker seemingly limited by injury? Yeah those guys might be better than the Baker of right now.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, kungfoodude said:

As a FREE AGENT, absolutely so. He would be an insanely big upgrade from Bryce. We would finally have a QB capable of performing the upper 90% of NFL starters. Price depending, obviously.

That being said, I would say the odds of Murray being a free agent are a lot smaller than you think. His odds of being moved are far higher than the odds of him being cut. They have until March 22nd to move him or his 2027 base salary is guaranteed.

Dianna Russini has been reporting for a while now that he'll likely be let go. She (and others) don't really see many teams all that enthusiastic to give up anything for him via trade. 

And no, I don't see Murray as any sort of top performer. Honestly think he'll either be a perennial backup or out of the league within a few years. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Statistically speaking Timmy Chang is an NCAA legend.

Likewise, if you go by stats then It can be argued that Sam Darnold and Trevor Lawrence are both better quarterbacks than Baker Mayfield right now. Would you accept that as fact? 

Football is just too complicated and team dependent a game to rely on stats as your top evaluation tool.

College football is an extremely poor comparison.

Also, by "right now" do you mean this season? Because one of those two QB's has no statistical argument for being better than Baker Mayfield.

I don't think this is about stats, records or anything on the football field.

You just like Bryce Young and you dislike Kyler Murray. But that isn't an argument based in any football reality, it's just your personal feelings.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Comparing NFL to college isn't exactly an apples vs. apples comparison with the drastically different levels of competition. Timmy Chang didn't face anywhere near the level of competition that guys in major conferences faced.

Right now? With Baker seemingly limited by injury? Yeah those guys might be better than the Baker of right now.

Not complaining college to pro. I use Chang as an example of the folly of stat driven analysis in football.

You guys know I don't put huge stock in stats.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Dianna Russini has been reporting for a while now that he'll likely be let go. She (and others) don't really see many teams all that enthusiastic to give up anything for him via trade. 

And no, I don't see Murray as any sort of top performer. Honestly think he'll either be a perennial backup or out of the league within a few years. 

I am not sure why any source would be particularly useful on free agency moves during the season but I will just say, I think you will see.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, kungfoodude said:

College football is an extremely poor comparison.

Also, by "right now" do you mean this season? Because one of those two QB's has no statistical argument for being better than Baker Mayfield.

I don't think this is about stats, records or anything on the football field.

You just like Bryce Young and you dislike Kyler Murray. But that isn't an argument based in any football reality, it's just your personal feelings.

Seriously, dude? 😆

And see above on the college thing.

I don't "like" Bryce. I don't dislike Murray. I don't think either one is NFL starter quality.

Now that said, one of them is going to be a starter next season and the other is likely to be looking for a job.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not complaining college to pro. I use Chang as an example of the folly of stat driven analysis in football.

You guys know I don't put huge stock in stats.

But winning games is a bad metric? Because one has a much better career winning percentage.

So if you aren't as good statistically and you lose considerably more.....you are the better QB???

Again, please help me find any logic in this argument.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Seriously, dude? 😆

And see above on the college thing.

I don't "like" Bryce. I don't dislike Murray. I don't think either one is NFL starter quality.

Now that said, one of them is going to be a starter next season and the other is likely to be looking for a job.

You just keep going back to an emotional argument and one not based in anything football related.

So, which one is going to be the starter and which one isn't? Also, how confident in that prediction are you?

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      Dude, you're kinda comparing apples to oranges. What Elway did and what Eli did were different than what Shedeur did. Shedeur did not publicly demand anything. It was through back channels and was more like a request. The Ravens understood and honored it. But even if you consider it entitlement (which is debatable regardless if you want to admit it or not), it was to a much lesser degree. After sliding, Sanders really didn't have any leverage whatsoever.  As for his attitude you can obviously believe what you want, but it has been widely reported that Shedeur's attitude has been great since being in the league.  Opinions about what he is, will become or won't become is getting way ahead of ourselves. I prefer to just wait and see what happens. He's young and has had a pretty good start. Highlight-reel-plays aren't a bad thing. I'm not invested in trying to pull the kid down. I realize that just like any other QB that has been drafted into the league, it's hard to say what they will become unless you see an appreciable body of work. Three games ain't really it. I'll withhold judgment on what I believe he can become after I see more.  
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      Go after Shedeur this offseason.

      By Mr. Scot · Posted

      I'm not cherry picking metrics.  I'm ignoring all of them. There are things about a player that stats are never gonna tell you. And there are things you might think stats tell you that are actually wrong. We've been talking about Howell so I looked up his stats for last season with Seattle. In the two games where he played, he had a completion percentage under 36 percent and his overall quarterback rating was in the mid teens. Should I consider those things valid for evaluative purposes?
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