So I know we're all excited about our new coach

[Peppers90 NC]

Those of you wanting a "proven" head coach, well, look at the trend of the league. Fox was the only "proven" coach snatched up this offseason. Cowher and Gruden were the two big names, while other guys like Schottenheimer havent really been considered either. Marriuchi(sp) didnt last long in Detroit and I'd be surprised if Parcels ever coaches again either, he is the Larry Brown of the NFL. Cowher only hurt himself taking this much time off and Gruden didnt get any HC offers either and those are the two most viable options. You could consider other coaches such as Williams down in NO who has been a coordinator to coach back to coordinator b/c he sucked as a coach. I think we got the right man for this job, someone who feels they have something to prove and he can instill that attitude to our players, who also feel like they have something to prove.

[Peppers90 NC]

What do fans know? It's hard to give an unbiased opinion when you're a fan. I would be pissed too if I let Shanahan go and picked up a dud like McDaniels and now hired a warmed over X Panthers coach from a 2-14 team....fact is Fox will turn that team around if the owner stays out of his way. He is old school and rewards his core players for loyalty, even if it hurts....this is not a trait that many coaches or men have today. You guys can bash Fox all you want, but he was 1 out of 5 coordinators that actually made it and I'll never forget the good times the man brought to the Carolinas.

Anyone who can call themselves a realist, would know that with no running game to even help matt moore and the rookie receivers, that the offense didn't stand a chance, regardless who is under center. Wait...we did have a running didn't we?

Then the musical qb game by fox helped, didn't it?

Some realist.

Alright, both of you guys are pretty much on the same page, just interpreting the messages differently. IF Rivera flops, still wont necessarily mean it was the wrong hire, but it just didnt work out for whatever reason (injuries or a bad first round qb bust or so-on). We hired RR and are excited about change and support our team's choice in the new leader. Yea, we could all come up with 20 other viable options on who we could have hired, but none of us have the resources the FO has nor has any of us given an interview.

Now, about last year and the 2-14. Most people here choose the easy cop-out answer and say Clausen sucks and he is the reason blah-blah, I take those nimrods comments with a grain of salt. Truth is, no one really knows the reason, the whole team was off in one way or another. First, the line never gelled, we couldnt get pass protection or running lanes. Secondly, we had a couple injuries before the season ever started, which forced moves that were not planned upon. Moore got a concussion early had to miss a game and put the rookie in a horrible spot. So, with no run game or protection, we have a rookie qb throwing to rookie wr's and Steve Smith who played average last season and was finding reasons to get pissed off. TEAM CHEMISTRY has much to do with this, and you can only put that on the head coach. I have been a long time Fox supporter so I hate admitting it, although I won't deny the team tried every game, they just didnt have it. Was it the fact JR purged because he didnt think we had what it took to win it all last year anyway and wanted to set up for long term success? Hopefully, and that is what I am buying anyway. I will take a bad year(hey it's already over anyway, is it that much worse than 7-9?) if it means preparing for the future, how nice will it be if we win championships and we can look back at 2-14 but our core players are now winners. I believe we are not that far off from being very competitive, and if JR's plan works as he hopes, we are in good position to resign our guys and pick up a few in FA if they find players that fit. We have the first pick in the draft and there are many options there. So there are plenty of reasons to be excited. Let's shore up that defense, get some continuity on offense, and REBUILD this team the proper way.

[Jangler]

I was never excited about the movie "Changeling" so I never saw it.

There are better changelings out there...

[Mr. Scot]

Ecstatic was the word. I'm not ecstatic about someone who hasn't been a successful Head Coach. I never said I didn't support Rivera or even like his attitude. I'm just not ecstatic about the guy.

For every Sean Payton there are five Mike Riley, Romeo Crennel, Dom Capers, Josh McDaniels and Lane Kiffin.....dude....I can go on and on with coordinator turned head coach flops....then I could go into the college coaches turned head coach flops....but what's the point, you're just going to go find the handful of successes and hang your little hat on that rather than take a real unbiased look at the success rate of coordinators turned head coach vs. head coach retreads. Oh yeah, the jury is still out on Shanahan...I believe he's earned at least 3 years before judgement is passed. He would be the first successful coach under Synder by the way, so take that for what it's worth....

Again. I'm happy with Rivera, but I'm not ecstatic. I don't know that he will be great or even good. Let's just hope he's 1 success out of 5 coordinator flops...

So we need three years to fairly judge Shanahan, but there's reason to be pessimistic about Rivera before he coaches a single game...okay :nonod:

In prior team history, who had more success? The rising coordinators or the retread?

I'd add that the notion Jerry Richardson deliberately tanked last year is incredibly stupid. He definitely made some bad calls, but he didn't deliberately tank a season.

[riddel]

I'd add that the notion Jerry Richardson deliberately tanked last year is incredibly stupid. He definitely made some bad calls, but he didn't deliberately tank a season.

You think he was shooting for the superbowl when he let 8 starters walk and didn't replace them? Did Richardson think they would go 2-14? No. Did he think they would have a winning season? No. Did he clean up a great deal of expensive contracts. Yes.

[Mr. Scot]

You think he was shooting for the superbowl when he let 8 starters walk and didn't replace them? Did Richardson think they would go 2-14? No. Did he think they would have a winning season? No. Did he clean up a great deal of expensive contracts. Yes.

The stated purpose was to force John Fox to play younger players.

Richardson made the mistake of believing that Fox would still do the job to the best of his abilities because that was "the right thing to do" (and because it would hurt his career if he didn't) but Fox essentially gave him a season long middle finger.

Last season happened, more than any other reason, because the owner and head coach got in a big pissing match.

[pantherclaw]

Can't say I agree with that, scot..but fox definately made mistakes.

1st, pressing the passing game so much that our run game was not productive (yes, I know many will argue injuries to the line, but we have good players there..even in backup rolls. It also put more pressure on our starting qb, which is never a good thing when said qb is really just taking over the team.

The 2nd mistake was going to clausen way to quickly. The offense just wasn't even ready to support the original starter...and they were going to step up more for a rookie qb? No.

I prolly have more respect for fox than 99% of this forum, but I can still admit his mistakes..and these were just 2 of them, that killed the start of the season, and any chance of getting into a rythem.

[Mr. Scot]

I prolly have more respect for fox than 99% of this forum, but I can still admit his mistakes..

I used to.

The more information that comes out about how things went last year, the less I have.

[pantherclaw]

I used to.

The more information that comes out about how things went last year, the less I have.

I don't think that is any secret...as I've seen posts from you that are very uncharacteristic of you...all about fox.

He has moved on...so should everyone else.

[Peppers90 NC]

I don't think that is any secret...as I've seen posts from you that are very uncharacteristic of you...all about fox.

He has moved on...so should everyone else.

This is it, it's very funny to me how Fox has ruined so many lives on this board.

[Mr. Scot]

We learned recently from Brett Jensen (via Danny Morrison I believe, but that wasn't revealed) that Fox and staff essentially did nothing to help Armanti Edwards last season because Fox hadn't wanted him. Also found out that Fox and Scherer essentially told Clausen to do nothing but throw the ball exactly where the play was designed to go or throw it away. No leeway to audible, improvise or much of anything else. The last QB I can remember who was trained using that method was a fellow by the name of David Carr.

There are other stories from guys like Gantt, Yasinskas and others that paint a pretty ugly picture of last year's behind-the-scenes action as well.

Bottom Line: Nobody is following news in Denver because they're emotional about it. Fox hasn't ruined anybody's life, but it is pretty interesting to watch stuff happening with him from an "outsider's perspective" now.

[Peppers90 NC]

We learned recently from Brett Jensen (via Danny Morrison I believe, but that wasn't revealed) that Fox and staff essentially did nothing to help Armanti Edwards last season because Fox hadn't wanted him. Also found out that Fox and Scherer essentially told Clausen to do nothing but throw the ball exactly where the play was designed to go or throw it away. No leeway to audible, improvise or much of anything else. The last QB I can remember who was trained using that method was a fellow by the name of David Carr.

There are other stories from guys like Gantt, Yasinskas and others that paint a pretty ugly picture of last year's behind-the-scenes action as well.

Bottom Line: Nobody is following news in Denver because they're emotional about it. Fox hasn't ruined anybody's life, but it is pretty interesting to watch stuff happening with him from an "outsider's perspective" now.

I agree, that has been very disappointing about Fox's last year, his apathetic approach to the rookies. You could tell from the presser with him and Hurney following the draft he wanted nothing to do with Clausen or Edwards, or any of the rooks really.

[Mr. Scot]

I agree, that has been very disappointing about Fox's last year, his apathetic approach to the rookies. You could tell from the presser with him and Hurney following the draft he wanted nothing to do with Clausen or Edwards, or any of the rooks really.

Can't fully blame Fox.

Richardson was fully prepared to let Fox walk last year. Unfortunately, Fox's money was guaranteed, so letting him go meant they'd have had to pay him and a new coach. Any other year he might have been willing to eat it, but not with a lockout looming. He gave Fox the chance to leave voluntarily and seek other employment, but Fox declined.

Knowing that he had a lame duck coach, Richardson made the mistake of believing that he could essentially force some kind of fragile truce and make it all work. And i suppose maybe he could have, but dumping a bunch of veterans that Fox trusted and wanted to keep in order to force Fox to play the younger players wasn't a good first step :(

In the end, the team would have been better off if Richardson had just fired Fox. Leaving a rebuilding team in the hands of a coach who wasn't going to benefit from any success they had was a disaster. Mind you, I understand why Richardson did it. Still, the results were horrible.