Mayock Warming to Cam Newton

[mav1234]

I've been slowly putting together wonderlic information on a ton of QBs to do my own analysis, but here's one put up by a guy who went from liking Cam to not because of his wonderlic. I think he's crazy but he is right that recent Superbowl QBs have all had high wonderlics. I personally think that is due to the fact that so many adjustments need to happen in games you need to be able to process information and learn quickly in game when teams have had weeks to prepare for you

http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/2011/NFL%20Draft/NFL%20Draft_2010%20Carolina%20Clausen%203-6-2011.htm

[Lout]

So again, there is a laundry list of QBs who you believe are smarter than Peyton Manning in terms of playing football.

too much is put into the wonderlic and what it means.....just like the combine.

Are you grasping at straws? I never said "The guy with the highest wonderlic will be the smartest on the football field". It's simply an indicator. If that were true, Ryan Fitzpatrick would be the best QB in the NFL. Give me a break.

[teeray]

Never seen the Panthers say "Newton is smarter than Gabbert."

Manning scored way above Newton. Let's be realistic here: Newton had a below average wonderlic, and not just barely below (like Clausen). When The Golden Calf of Bristol did the same, it raised red flags for ESPN... but it hasn't for Newton, probably because due to racial bias the expectation was lower with him for it.

Other scouts would say as long as you're at or above average they don't really care about it.

They also look at things l ike how quickly you make reads on the field and how fast you take to coaching to determine intelligence.

Newton is smart enough to be an NFL QB. That does not mean he's smarter than Gabbert. Come on, Gabbert being smarter doesn't mean Newton is going to fail or that Gabbert is going to do well.

Absolutely true. He may not be as smart as Gabbert but many people have scored poorly on the wonderlic and turned out to be very intelligent QBs. I know it is a different era but Marino is a very smart football guy. Very smart. And he scored like a 15. I'm not going to say who is smarter than who. I don't think Alex Smith is as football intelligent as Jim Kelly. I just don't think you can take the wonderlic and say he's smarter. He could be. But I will decide when I see them on the field

[teeray]

Are you grasping at straws? I never said "The guy with the highest wonderlic will be the smartest on the football field". It's simply an indicator. If that were true, Ryan Fitzpatrick would be the best QB in the NFL. Give me a break.

So then what did you mean? Gabbert is better at math?

[Lout]

So then what did you mean? Gabbert is better at math?

A higher wonderlic score determines a higher chance of success. They are correlated. Is it everything? No. But to say they are not correlated is ignorance. Personally, I like my quarterbacks to be smart.. there is a certain number on the wonderlic that I would like them to hit.. it's around 25-26. Historically, your QB's success rate is much greater at that number.

Cam Newton is not considered a smart kid. Is he dumb? No. But he is below average as far as quarterbacks go. Give me Gabbert brain in Newton's body any day.. but I don't trust the kid. Just as Mayock doesn't trust the kid.. there is way too much baggage for me. If we don't take Gabbert, that's fine, but I hope we take Marcel Dareus, as I think Newton will be a wasted pick.

[teeray]

I've been slowly putting together wonderlic information on a ton of QBs to do my own analysis, but here's one put up by a guy who went from liking Cam to not because of his wonderlic. I think he's crazy but he is right that recent Superbowl QBs have all had high wonderlics. I personally think that is due to the fact that so many adjustments need to happen in games you need to be able to process information and learn quickly in game when teams have had weeks to prepare for you

http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/2011/NFL%20Draft/NFL%20Draft_2010%20Carolina%20Clausen%203-6-2011.htm

He also think Ricky Stanzi is the best QB in the class. Jim Kelly played in several super bowls (no wins though). And he has incomplete info because on some QBs he doesn't really know their wonderlic scores, like Warner for instance (not sire Warner even went to a combine though). Actually many QBs we don't know their actual scores only what was leaked. None of them are official.

[mav1234]

I saw most of Gabberts pro day.

where did you see it? ESPN & NFLN showed the same ~3 mintue clipped, chopped into different bits, with the same handful of throws. Would like to actually see most of it.

[teeray]

A higher wonderlic score determines a higher chance of success. They are correlated. Is it everything? No. But to say they are not correlated is ignorance. Personally, I like my quarterbacks to be smart.. there is a certain number on the wonderlic that I would like them to hit.. it's around 25-26. Historically, your QB's success rate is much greater at that number.

Actually that is false. There is a pattern of people who score 35 or higher actually have a higher bust rate then people with lower scores. I think 25-32 is the ideal wonderlic?? Something like that.

[CRA]

Are you grasping at straws? I never said "The guy with the highest wonderlic will be the smartest on the football field". It's simply an indicator. If that were true, Ryan Fitzpatrick would be the best QB in the NFL. Give me a break.

you said higher wonderlic means smarter.

I said higher wonderlic doesn't mean you are a smarter football player.

[mav1234]

Actually that is false. There is a pattern of people who score 35 or higher actually have a higher bust rate then people with lower scores. I think 25-32 is the ideal wonderlic?? Something like that.

Gabbert's actual wonderlic at the combine was 31, supposedly. Sounds like he's in the ideal range, not Cam Newton. ;)

As a note, 11 of the last 15 superbowl winning QBs have had over 25 on the wonderlic. 2 of the other 4 (johnson/warner) are unknown. 2 are Favre and Dilfer.

In the last decade, the only QB to play in the Superbowl with a known wonderlic below a 25 was McNabb, who didn't win (and some might even unreasonably "blame" him for that).

More interestingly is to look at the average wonderlic of starting QBs in the NFL. This is what I am doing.

I will say this: I've not seen a clear correlation between increasing wonderlic and success. As Tee said, there appears to be a sweet spot.

[teeray]

where did you see it? ESPN & NFLN showed the same ~3 mintue clipped, chopped into different bits, with the same handful of throws. Would like to actually see most of it.

I watched what was live from ESPN which was about 20 throws and there have been other clips around the net. I probably saw @ 30 throws. Maybe a bit more or less. I think he threw 49. Then again maybe some of them overlapped so maybe a little less than that. Remond me later I will try to find something for you. I might have some bookmarked on my computer. My com is away getting repaired right now.

[Lout]

you said higher wonderlic means smarter.

I said higher wonderlic doesn't mean you are a smarter football player.

Not in all cases, of course, but generally, yes it does. You can learn football at a faster rate, is what the wonderlic means to me.

[CRA]

Not in all cases, of course, but generally, yes it does. You can learn football at a faster rate, is what the wonderlic means to me.

well, that may be what it means to you......but that doesn't make it true. If you were to make a list of the greatest QBs of the last 3 decades......Cam's score would be higher than plenty of the guys on the list.

Wonderlic is garbage for the most part if you want to talk about who can play football pending someone didn't score a 8 or something.

[teeray]

Gabbert's actual wonderlic at the combine was 31, supposedly. Sounds like he's in the ideal range, not Cam Newton. ;)

As a note, 11 of the last 15 superbowl winning QBs have had over 25 on the wonderlic. 2 of the other 4 (johnson/warner) are unknown. 2 are Favre and Dilfer.

In the last decade, the only QB to play in the Superbowl with a known wonderlic below a 25 was McNabb, who didn't win (and some might even unreasonably "blame" him for that).

More interestingly is to look at the average wonderlic of starting QBs in the NFL. This is what I am doing.

I will say this: I've not seen a clear correlation between increasing wonderlic and success. As Tee said, there appears to be a sweet spot.

I know this is just blind huggerism on my part but I really don't care about the wonderlic scores of the past couple of handfuls of Super Boel winners. I just don't think it matters. If anything as a nut hugger I will look at that and say "see Favre, McNabb, Dilfer, maybe Johnson, maybe Warner, McNabb came close!1!!1! :lol: at least is can admit it though. :cool:

I just don't buy into the wonderlic score really mattering that much. In all honesty there is a very small difference between 21 and 25. At 25 you are super bowl material but at 21 you are a dummy (I know you didn't say he was a dummy I am being over dramatic)

As long as someone doesn't score a 9 like Vince Young did I just don't get too excited about it.