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Honestly given the perception of the QBs at the time they were drafted...

frash.exe

By frash.exe,
in Carolina Panthers

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
Posted

imo, if you had a good career but you didn't do most or nearly all of it with one team, it's hard to really call that a good pick by that team. =|

also Vick imo has to be considered as someone who didn't work out for the Falcons, even if as a player he isn't done yet.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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imo, if you had a good career but you didn't do most or nearly all of it with one team, it's hard to really call that a good pick by that team. =|

also Vick imo has to be considered as someone who didn't work out for the Falcons, even if as a player he isn't done yet.

Pretty much.

If your achievements didn't come with the team that drafted you, then you can't really be called "a great pick".

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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Oh you guys didn't hear? Andrew Luck hasn't even declared and he's already been accepted to Canton.

Oh boy when we draft him next year he'll already be a hall of famer! And we're going to win 8 superbowls in a row. He is THAT GOOD.

dance.gif

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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Pretty much.

If your achievements didn't come with the team that drafted you, then you can't really be called "a great pick".

No. It was still a great. But pick poor management or peculiar circumstance often times are the reasons that a guy doesn't stay with a team.

You guys are unrealistic. And what if Cam becomes that guy.

Will you guys look back and say he was worth the number one pick?? Do you guys enjoy judging with captain hindsight?

hindsight.jpg?

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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That's a pretty harsh scale you grade on Mr. Scott.

When it comes to the #1 overall pick, it's an extremely harsh scale, and it should be (and not just for quarterbacks).

Blowing the top pick in the draft is a huge deal. I really don't want to see that happen here.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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No. It was still a great. But pick poor management or peculiar circumstance often times are the reasons that a guy doesn't stay with a team.

You guys are unrealistic. And what if Cam becomes that guy.

Will you guys look back and say he was worth the number one pick?? Do you guys enjoy judging with captain hindsight?

are you saying... if Cam goes to a couple pro bowls, gets into the playoffs, then smears the team and himself by getting arrested for something heinous? I DO NOT THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN DONT CALL ME A RACIST.

I'll consider the pick a bust for us, and be disgusted that he was once a Panther. I'm sorry, no amount of winning is worth that kind of poo.

The same way you HAVE to consider Kerry Collins a bust for us despite the fact the guy is still in the league and probably has as many playoff appearances as the team does in it's history... he didn't do it with us, therefore he was a bust for us.

If you draft a guy at #1, you don't just expect him to go to a couple pro bowls and get your team into the playoffs for a year or two before leaving it. You expect to build around him for the future. Anything less has to be considered a failure of the management AND the player to live up to the #1 billing.

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frash.exe Apprentice

frash.exe

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two equally bad opposing revisionist arguments that are largely irrelevant

you can't just use your personal evaluation of the probability of who worked out and who didn't as an anchor to deciding whether or not to draft a QB

Jim Plunkett and Tim Couch's career QB ratings and accomplishments have no influence to Gabbert or Newton's future and you know it

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Tarheels23 Newbie

Tarheels23

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Posted

1. Bradford and Stafford are not busts by anymean so I agree with you on the jury is still out because they are young.

2. Russell and Smith are both busts of course.

3. Vick was never a bust and always had ATL in playoff position and is now doing the same thing with the Eagles.

4. Eli, like you said is not great. However, he has won a SB.

5. Carson Palmer has had injury problems but when he healthy he plays well.

6. Couch and Carr are busts.

7. Drew Bledsoe is a 4X Pro Bowler and a SB champion which is far from an underachiever.

8. Jeff George is a bust.

9. Vinny Testaverde was not a bust, he just couldn't get that SB win.

10. Steve Bartkowski was an All-Pro selection so he might be a little better than so-so.

11. Aikman, Manning, Elway, and Bradshaw are all superstars like you said.

12. Plunkett also won a SB which is what the goal of the organization is.

Succeeded

1. Eli Manning

2. Carson Palmer

3. Michael Vick

4. Peyton Manning

5. Drew Bledsoe

6. Troy Aikman

7. Vinny Testaverde

8. John Elway

9. Steve Bartkowski

10. Jim Plunkett

11. Terry Bradshaw

Jurry Still Out

1. Sam Bradford

2. Matt Stafford

Busted

1. JaMarcus Russell

2. David Carr

3. Alex Smith

4. Jeff George

5. Tim Couch

11-5-2 is over 50% my friend and considering how bad our QB play was last year, I will take those odds and draft Cam Newton.

I may be the only one to feel this way, but I would say the jury is still out on Alex Smith as well. Other than that I agree with your list

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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are you saying... if Cam goes to a couple pro bowls, gets into the playoffs, then smears the team and himself by getting arrested for something heinous? I DO NOT THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN DONT CALL ME A RACIST.

I'll consider the pick a bust for us, and be disgusted that he was once a Panther. I'm sorry, no amount of winning is worth that kind of poo.

The same way you HAVE to consider Kerry Collins a bust for us despite the fact the guy is still in the league and probably has as many playoff appearances as the team does in it's history... he didn't do it with us, therefore he was a bust for us.

It might suck donkey balls for us. But the player is a really good player. You saying a guy wasn't worth the #1 pick because he was great after leaving that team doesn't mean it was a bad pick.

We are talking about the players that were picked #1 NOT the franchises that picked them.

You guys are saying that PLAYERS were not worth the number 1 pick because they were good later on. Well they were still worth number 1 pick.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted

two equally bad opposing revisionist arguments that are largely irrelevant

you can't just use your personal evaluation of the probability of who worked out and who didn't as an anchor to deciding whether or not to draft a QB

Jim Plunkett and Tim Couch's career QB ratings and accomplishments have no influence to Gabbert or Newton's future and you know it

Neither do John Elway's and Peyton Manning's, or any of the other successes.

Some years there just isn't a quarterback worthy of the number one. In my opinion, this is one of those years.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Posted

It might suck donkey balls for us. But the player is a really good player. You saying a guy wasn't worth the #1 pick because he was great after leaving that team doesn't mean it was a bad pick.

We are talking about the players that were picked #1 NOT the franchises that picked them.

You guys are saying that PLAYERS were not worth the number 1 pick because they were good later on. Well they were still worth number 1 pick.

...

I don't think you understand. You don't draft a player #1 to benefit that player, you do it to benefit your team. I'm glad for Kerry Collins that he's had a great career, but can you really say that the Panthers really got a lot out of picking him?

Same goes for the others...

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