Cam will start in 2011 if drafted

[mav1234]

84% of all 1st rounders the last 10 years start for one reason or another at least a game.

Did sitting help Brady Quinn or JP Losman transition better?? They are half they 16% that sat all of their rookie years.

Cam Newton will either have it or he won't. I don't think it matters if he sits for 2 years or goes in late in the season of his rookie year.

Losman sat out his rookie year? Are you sure? I thought he broke his leg in training camp but still came in and played a couple games later in the season.

edit: ahh, ok, Losman broke his leg and only made it into 3 games as relief. His broken leg was a main reason he didn't start though I thought. May be wrong.

Also, I had thought Brady Quinn wasn't exactly held out, he just didn't beat out Derek Anderson lol.

[CRA]

Losman sat out his rookie year? Are you sure? I thought he broke hi leg in training camp but still came in and played a couple games later in the season.

pretty sure Bledsoe led them to a 9-7 season....in a tough division.

the 4 QBs that didn't start a game as a rookie are

Losman

Quinn

Rodgers

Rivers

all the QBs who started ahead of them were either Pro Bowlers that year (Anderson, Brees)or had previously been to multiple Pro Bowls (Bledsoe, Favre).

Those are the only examples of teams that weren't forced at some point to go with the highly talented rookie they just gambled with (in the last 10 drafts).

[mav1234]

pretty sure Bledsoe led them to a 9-7 season.

He did, but it's hard to really argue that Losman was held out to develop when he was held out with a broken leg. Just sitting on a bench isn't necessarily going to help a quarterback, it depends if they can actually be out practicing etc.

[CRA]

He did, but it's hard to really argue that Losman was held out to develop when he was held out with a broken leg. Just sitting on a bench isn't necessarily going to help a quarterback, it depends if they can actually be out practicing etc.

no reason to give a rookie action when you have a former pro bowler leading you to 9 wins in a tough division. He wouldn't have played for the same reason Quinn or Rivers didn't.

[Oldschool Leroy]

I think we should go into camp with Moore, Clausen Pike, and a veteran.

We could go into camp with Moore, Clausen, Pike and a draft pick, but I don't like that option (too much youth).

I think Null has a contract largely just in case Moore signs elsewhere; which I don't see likely, but they have to plan for all scenarios.

I know teams and players are not allowed to have contact but is it possible that Clausen, Moore and Pike already have part of the new play book to be learning?

[mav1234]

no reason to give a rookie action when you have a former pro bowler leading you to 9 wins in a tough division. He wouldn't have played for the same reason Quinn or Rivers didn't.

That is debatable. The entire reason they drafted Losman is because Bledsoe wasn't getting it done. 2004 was his first winning season as a Bill, and it was his last season as a Bill.

We have no idea if he would have started games if his leg hadn't been broken (decent chance he would have - Bills started off 1-5). He wasn't even healthy until November, and he took his first snap in a pro game on November 15th (and got his first sack too lol). He was too far behind to start, though, and they only put him in during limited relief. But the coaches felt confident enough in him and had lost enough confidence in Bledsoe that they released Bledsoe.

Losman is a poor example of showing how sitting a QB doesn't work well because breaking your leg as a rookie early is a sure way to set yourself way back anyway.

[CRA]

That is debatable. The entire reason they drafted Losman is because Bledsoe wasn't getting it done. 2004 was his first winning season as a Bill, and it was his last season as a Bill.

We have no idea if he would have started games if his leg hadn't been broken (decent chance he would have - Bills started off 1-5). He wasn't even healthy until November, and he took his first snap in a pro game on November 15th (and got his first sack too lol). He was too far behind to start, though, and they only put him in during limited relief. But the coaches felt confident enough in him and had lost enough confidence in Bledsoe that they released Bledsoe.

Losman is a poor example of showing how sitting a QB doesn't work well because breaking your leg as a rookie early is a sure way to set yourself way back anyway.

Bledsoe went to the Pro Bowl in 2002- not a single team in the division had a losing record that year. He was actually VERY good then. The 3 yr stretch he played in Buffalo it was a very tough division and he did well........you make it sound like Bledsoe was sucking it up before that 9-7 season. Bledsoe played well in Buffalo.

Sorry if you don't like Losman but there are only 4 guys who didn't start out of the last 25 1st rounders drafted. Losman wouldn't have started that season if healthy.... their playoff fate came down to the last game of the season. No reason to think of/argue for testing a rookie QB.

You wouldn't like Brady Quinn being used either. There are only 2 examples where it worked in that span......teams just can't afford to sit talented QBs when their roster sucks at QB. That is why it is 4 vs 21.

[mav1234]

Bledsoe went to the Pro Bowl in 2002- not a single team in the division had a losing record that year. He was actually VERY good then. The 3 yr stretch he played in Buffalo it was a very tough division and he did well........you make it sound like Bledsoe was sucking it up before that 9-7 season. Bledsoe played well in Buffalo.

Sorry if you don't like Losman but there are only 4 guys who didn't start out of the last 25 1st rounders drafted. Losman wouldn't have started that season if healthy.... You wouldn't like Brady Quinn being used either. There are only 2 examples where it worked in that span......teams just can't afford to sit talented QBs when their roster sucks at QB. That is why it is 4 vs 21.

Bledsoe's best year of his career arguably was 2002 and they STILL only went 8-8. He never regained that "mojo" and we have no idea what would have happened with Losman had he not been injured. Bledsoe's 2003 year was so bad, some called it the worst in his career (up to that point) and THAT is why they got Losman... You are right though, if you have a better option than your rookie you go with him. Certainly, starting Bledsoe over a one-legged rookie was a better option. :P

Most teams do start the QBs they draft because they are so bad at QB they need to. However, most of those teams didn't have a backup with a winning record who has proven capable in the past of running an offense well. We do.

How many of those 21 started from day 1? How many came in later in the season? How many came in due to injuries of those before them?

I mean, the thing is, I don't think Newton needs to sit a season necessarily, but Newton shouldn't start the season if his progression is where many think it is.

[CRA]

I think we should go into camp with Moore, Clausen Pike, and a veteran.

We could go into camp with Moore, Clausen, Pike and a draft pick, but I don't like that option (too much youth).

I think Null has a contract largely just in case Moore signs elsewhere; which I don't see likely, but they have to plan for all scenarios.[/QUOTE]

I agree with bolded which is why just about everyone was tendered.....

No way Rivera/Chud come into Carolina and think Moore/Clausen/Pike (Fox's QBs) is a smart way to start a new era. New coach always means new QBs.....that is mutliplied when they look as pathetic as that trio did (and that can all be pinned on Foxy)

[CatMan72]

When you have a 1st round rookie QB standing on the sideline it becomes incredibly tempting to put him in the game the moment your starting QB is struggling. For the amount of money you pay these 1st round QB's, I'm sure there is also pressure from within the organization to get them out on the field as fast as possible.

If we draft Cam, I'm totally expecting him to be the starter before the end of his rookie season... it's inevitable.

[CRA]

Bledsoe's best year of his career arguably was 2002 and they STILL only went 8-8. He never regained that "mojo" and we have no idea what would have happened with Losman had he not been injured. Bledsoe's 2003 year was so bad, some called it the worst in his career (up to that point) and THAT is why they got Losman... You are right though, if you have a better option than your rookie you go with him. Certainly, starting Bledsoe over a one-legged rookie was a better option. :P

Most teams do start the QBs they draft because they are so bad at QB they need to. However, most of those teams didn't have a backup with a winning record who has proven capable in the past of running an offense well. We do.

How many of those 21 started from day 1? How many came in later in the season? How many came in due to injuries of those before them?

I mean, the thing is, I don't think Newton needs to sit a season necessarily, but Newton shouldn't start the season if his progression is where many think it is.

Team sport.

The entire point was that they had a QB functioning at a fairly high level......a former pro bowler who had them in the mix for a playoff spot in 04and that is the reason Losman was 1 of only 4.

of those 21 teams.....you are saying they didn't have a Matt Moore caliber QB on the roster?

I never said they started from day 1....I said teams that draft rookies in round 1 start them at some point as rookies. I never said Cam would start week 1.....don't see that at all.

[mav1234]

Team sport.

The entire point was that they had a QB functioning at a fairly high level......a former pro bowler who had them in the mix for a playoff spot in 04and that is the reason Losman was 1 of only 4.

of those 21 teams.....you are saying they didn't have a Matt Moore caliber QB on the roster?

I never said they started from day 1....I said teams that draft rookies in round 1 start them at some point as rookies. I never said Cam would start week 1.....don't see that at all.

I'm not sure what you mean - Bledsoe had one of his worst seasons ever in 2003 and he cost them games. It may be a team sport, but *he* cost them games. He was being replaced by Losman, that was basically the plan. Or so it seemed. I could be wrong, but at the time one of my friends was a huge Bills fan and one of the TV stations we got in Vermont was from Buffalo, so. That was the impression I was getting from the media. But could be wrong!

My entire point was only that Losman's situation was not at all like River's or Rodger's, that's all.

I think that if the team struggles with Moore under center, Newton will get tossed in if we draft him and if he has progressed well. I just don't think it's automatic he starts like you do.

[OneBadassCat]

If Cam is drafted #1 overall, recent history shows he will start in 2011 at some point.

In the past 10 NFL drafts, 25 QBs have been drafted in round 1.

21 of those 25 QBs started as rookies.

The 4 QBs who did not start as rookies, all had starting QBs that either had a Pro Bowl season that year or had previously been to the Pro Bowl multiple times. (Carolina doesn't have a former Pro Bowler or a QB on pace to reach it this upcoming season on the roster).

So if we draft Cam.....you gotta be ready for the Cam era to start at some point in 2011.

Logically I'd say no. But if Cam gets half the hype that he does on the huddle then I could see it happening.

[CRA]

I'm not sure what you mean - Bledsoe had one of his worst seasons ever in 2003 and he cost them games. It may be a team sport, but *he* cost them games. He was being replaced by Losman, that was basically the plan. Or so it seemed. I could be wrong, but at the time one of my friends was a huge Bills fan and one of the TV stations we got in Vermont was from Buffalo, so. That was the impression I was getting from the media. But could be wrong!

My entire point was only that Losman's situation was not at all like River's or Rodger's, that's all.

I think that if the team struggles with Moore under center, Newton will get tossed in if we draft him and if he has progressed well. I just don't think it's automatic he starts like you do.

The last game of the season...Buffalo was playing for a spot in the playoffs. He wasn't the Bledsoe of 2 years earlier.....but what team would insert a rookie into a lineup when a vet has them in the mix of a playoff spot?

I agree, Losman and Rivers and Rodgers aren't similar scenarios.......they just happen to all be part of a VERY small club over the last 10 years.

I would be thrilled if Moore was back.....but I still think bringing Moore back would mean Jimmy would get beat out of a spot (and I don't think we are that lucky). I just think Rivera is going to draft Cam and brings in somone else to compete with Fox's leftovers.....