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The Annual Midnight Vigil

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Yeah he's supposed to be some sort of personnel genius right? Well giving up what it would take to get Cassel when they have as good a young QB on the roster already isn't what a genius does.

He should use that value to pick up linemen and receivers to help his QB out instead of placing another guy in that blackhole of an offence.

Understand me here. I'm not saying it's a great move. I'm saying Pioli is why it could happen.

(like the old saying about who you know being more important than what you know in job hunting)

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Understand me here. I'm not saying it's a great move. I'm saying Pioli is why it could happen.

(like the old saying about who you know being more important than what you know in job hunting)

Yes I understand, and I'm saying his rep says he's smarter than that.

The only way I could see it happening is if he plans to ship Thigpen back the other way as part of the compensation for Cassel, maybe Thigpen and a 3rd for Cassel. That could actually work for both teams, but I believe Belacheat and Pioli would like nothing more than to rape each other :)

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Yes I understand, and I'm saying his rep says he's smarter than that.

The only way I could see it happening is if he plans to ship Thigpen back the other way as part of the compensation for Cassel, maybe Thigpen and a 3rd for Cassel. That could actually work for both teams, but I believe Belacheat and Pioli would like nothing more than to rape each other :)

GM reputations: One of my favorite topics :lol:

Bill Polian, the guy who built the Colts into a winner around Peyton Manning.

Also the guy who built the Panthers that got old fast and the guy who was owned for years by the Patriots with supposedly lesser draft picks.

Scott Pioli, the guy who presided over years of Patriot success and who was so smart at drafting that he got Tom Brady with a sixth round pick.

Also the guy who bought into the ridiculous notion that Brady was soo good he could win it all with only an average receiving corps (Reche Caldwell, anyone?) and the guy who, let's be honest, got lucky with Brady. He had no more clue Brady would be what he was than anyone else did, Belichick included. Had they really "known" they'd have started him over Bledsoe way before injury forced them to do so.

Carmen Policy, the guy who built the San Francisco 49ers into a dynasty and the greatest team of the 80s.

Also the guy who, when forced to work under the salary cap in both San Fran and even more so in Cleveland, completely tanked, even with all the advantages that were given them as an expansion team.

Bill Parcells, the guy so good as a coach/GM that he could take any team to the playoffs in a single season.

Also the guy whose teams haven't won a playoff game in years.

Aaaand Jimmy Johnson, the coach/GM who built the Cowboys into the greatest team of the 90s.

Also the guy who benefited from an incredibly stupid move by Vikings management and an era with no salary cap. When he tried to duplicate that success, he did so with a team that had a star QB and had one...simple... problem, no running game. All he had to do was fix that one problem and the offense would likely be unstoppable. Only he never did, and the Dolphins under his leadership were quite "stoppable".

Sometimes I think the only people more overhyped than QBs in football is GMs. Sure they have their successes, but they have their failures too, and very few of them are as good as the hype machine would have you believe.

The topic always amuses me :lol:

And this, more than anything else, is the prime reason why I have never jumped on the bandwagon that says "Bill Cowher will save us" :rolleyes:

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Just to play devils advocate, Polian did what the big cat told him to do build an instant winner, and it almost worked. He'd have been in canton if the Panthers had won the Superbowl in their second year.

Pioli may have gotten lucky with Brady, but I'm a UM fan, and I can tell you Brady was unfairly stuck behind Henson, he never really got a chance. Apparently Cassel is pretty much the same guy, talented and hungry. Pioli may just have an eye for those guys.

The rest I won't directly comment on, but they've each won a lot, and many others haven't won poo, so I guess at some point they knew what they were doing.

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Fireball77 Newbie

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GM reputations: One of my favorite topics :lol:

Bill Polian, the guy who built the Colts into a winner around Peyton Manning.

Also the guy who built the Panthers that got old fast and the guy who was owned for years by the Patriots with supposedly lesser draft picks.

Oh how I HATE HATE HATE Napolian...he is a massive asshole...but I think that's not giving him as much credit as he deserves ***shudder***

He built the same type of team in Buff, all offense heavy and they made the SB 4 x. He then proceeded to do the same thing in Indy which I personally do not agree with philosophy wise, but to his credit (and his help from being on the Comp Committee but I digress) he then hired a HC who had a defensive philosophy that dovetailed nicely with his offense heavy preference. They have historically also known when to let players go. So I would say he is a good GM overall. I wouldn't hire him only because I hate that too offense heavy philosophy.

Scott Pioli, the guy who presided over years of Patriot success and who was so smart at drafting that he got Tom Brady with a sixth round pick.

Also the guy who bought into the ridiculous notion that Brady was soo good he could win it all with only an average receiving corps (Reche Caldwell, anyone?) and the guy who, let's be honest, got lucky with Brady. He had no more clue Brady would be what he was than anyone else did, Belichick included. Had they really "known" they'd have started him over Bledsoe way before injury forced them to do so.

Pioli will and has freely admitted that they had some luck with Brady. In his office he had a picture of Brady and the do nothing 5th rounder they selected which was meant to keep it in perspective that it's a crapshoot sometimes. Pioli can keep things like that in persective and not get all full of himself and huffy which separates him from Polian.

And as for Bledsoe, he was never ever BB's QB...ever. I firmly believe that change was coming, likely in 2002, injury or no injury....Brady or no Brady. The fact of the matter is that they kept 4 QBs in 2000 which is unheard of pretty much for them so they could keep Brady as a rookie, and in 2001, they vaulted Brady above the vet Damon Huard as the backup so they actually saw things in Brady in practice, meeting rooms, etc. that people didn't know about until he played. And the fact of the matter is that their QB coach at the time (Rehbein...sp?) campaigned hard for drafting Brady and they trusted him enough to do it.

In defense of Pioli/BB (and yes it is both of them not just SP) with the subpar receiving corps in 2006, that year they fully expected to have Deion Branch in the fold and Deion decided to be a complete twat and hold out while under contract. They would have been ok had they had him in 2006. It wasn't a great or even very good corps, but Brady had dealt with merely decent corps before. The problem was that once Branch pulled his shenanigans, they were in the hole because Chad Jackson's lighbulb didn't go on (and never did, BUST CITY) and they were scrambling for pieces parts with Doug Gabriel & Caldwell (though they did find a midseason gem in Gaffney).

One certainly could critique some of their drafts and have a good case, and one certainly could critique the mess they made of the Branch situation, they've made their share of personnel moves that didn't work out (but they are usually cheap players so it doesn't hurt them that much) but on those two things you mentioned, I wouldn't discredit him or say they were merely lucky.

Pioli may have gotten lucky with Brady, but I'm a UM fan, and I can tell you Brady was unfairly stuck behind Henson, he never really got a chance.

That's the truth...Carr really effed with him. From what I know of his college career, he never really did anything playing wise to deserve being yanked around like he was.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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The difference between good and great is so much luck.

Ain't that the truth :lol:

I'm sure Fox and Hurney would tell you they "saw something" in Delhomme, but then why not start him over Peete, especially after Bill Cowher reportedly told Fox at midfield "If you don't start that Delhomme guy, you're crazy."

Likewise, I'm sure they'd say they thought Steve Smith had the potential to be great from the beginning. Maybe so, but realistically he wasn't, and didn't become so until after his ego was bruised by a miscommunication through his agent that told him Marty Hurney had called him "marginal" (what he actually said was "unproven").

And of course there's the Williams/Maroney thing (discussed elsewhere).

Also imagine how different things would have been if Bill Polian's gut had told him to take Ryan Leaf rather than Peyton Manning? It most certainly could have happened.

Heck, the Packers once had Todd Kinchen targeted to be their go-to receiver. They even had him on the phone on draft day trying to keep other teams from contacting him, but the Rams took him anyway. So rather than get the potential superstar they thought they had in Kinchen, they had to settle for a second choice by the name of Robert Brooks.

(oops) :lol:

Yeah, there is a lot to scouting (Don Gregory vs Tony Softli proves that) but it's often true that 'geniuses' get lucky as much as anything else.

When you get right down to it, nobody in football should be referred to as a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein :D

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carpanfan96 Veteran

carpanfan96

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ESPN.com's Chris Mortensen reports that Albert Haynesworth's deal with the Redskins is effectively for four years, $48 million, but Haynesworth isn't likely to see the last half of the contract. Haynesworth is due a $29 million "poison pill" in salary and bonuses in 2013, his age 32 season. It's possible that the contract will be renegotiated down the road, but the important number for Haynesworth is the $41 million in guarantees.

Haha so not such a big payday now huh

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