Brockers vs Poe

[MadHatter]

I would only pick Jenkins is he were there at 40. He is the 4th best CB in the draft talent wise but gets a downgrade for character issues. No way would I trust him at 9.

Cox won't be there at 40. Once a few DTs go in the first 15 picks, there is a frenzy of DT activity and he is gone by 30.

I don't think we need Washington especially trading up. By the way, what did we trade to get him since you put in every other draft pick?? You would had to give next year's first to trade for a second. You would give up next year's first rounder for an OG in the second round??? Seriously???

We won't need Ocho since we picked up Kuechly with the first. Even if we don't I like Brown in the second.

James Hanna is projected as 7th rounder. Even with the combine speed his production doesn't speak to being a value pick. Besides haven't we spent enough 5th round picks on TEs who didn't work out?? I can think of 3 in the past 5 years.

Punters are a dime a dozen. I would get one that is a free agent or undrafted.

Finally Jefferson was not a good quarterback at all this year. If we go after a rookie there are others better.

Was that too harsh???? Sorry,. but you wanted feedback.

I agree with most things that you post. However, Jenkins is clearly the 2nd best CB in this draft from a talent perspective (behind Claiborne)....and probably is the best cover CB in the draft. Strip away is off the field issues and he would be a consensus Top 10 pick.

[panthers55]

I agree with most things that you post. However, Jenkins is clearly the 2nd best CB in this draft from a talent perspective (behind Claiborne)....and probably is the best cover CB in the draft. Strip away is off the field issues and he would be a consensus Top 10 pick.

The issue for us is that we won't primarily be using a man scheme this year so cover corner is not the major advantage it would be for teams like the Jets or Raiders. Look how Samuels struggled in zone this year for the Eagles who run a similar scheme to us. So going after a great cover corner with lots of issues might make sense for a team who will run a primarily cover 0 scheme or a cover 2 shell with man under all the time. But a zone blitz relies on corners playing the deep zones much of the time.So the question is really how would he be in our scheme and is he worth the risk for us as opposed to the fact he was a great cover corner in college. My putting him fourth was my nonexpert assessment of his talent if he played in our scheme not whether he would be great or even number 1 for someone running a man scheme. I didn't make that very clear.

[MadHatter]

The issue for us is that we won't primarily be using a man scheme this year so cover corner is not the major advantage it would be for teams like the Jets or Raiders. Look how Samuels struggled in zone this year for the Eagles who run a similar scheme to us. So going after a great cover corner with lots of issues might make sense for a team who will run a primarily cover 0 scheme or a cover 2 shell with man under all the time. But a zone blitz relies on corners playing the deep zones much of the time.So the question is really how would he be in our scheme and is he worth the risk for us as opposed to the fact he was a great cover corner in college. My putting him fourth was my nonexpert assessment of his talent if he played in our scheme not whether he would be great or even number 1 for someone running a man scheme. I didn't make that very clear.

Given the jetisoning of Meeks, I was not sure what scheme we would end up running this year.

[carolina-chuck]

You are right I didn't see the Cincinnati thing but we would have hosed them if they give us their second this year for them to move up from 17 to 9, maybe they give you a 2nd next year. But either way Jenkins is not a first rounder with all his baggage. In fact with Hogan projected as a starter I wouldn't go after corner in the first or second. As for Kuechly, he is not only a middle linebacker but he is whatever we want him to be. What people don't seem to know about him is that he lead the nation in tackles the last 2 years and was second his freshmen year. He had 7 interceptions (2 he ran back for pick sixes), 35 tackles for losses, and 17 passes defended and he was only a junior. His numbers were off the charts. To put in perspective his combine numbers were in line with Patrick Willis and he did more in college in 3 years than Willis did in 4 years. To the tune of 200 more tackles in 1 less year. He frankly would be an upgrade to every linebacker we have including Beason.

and of course you or I cant predict who's going to be there at third, thats why this is a "little mock draft". how could yo predict then that cox is not going to be there at second?

Brown is a great talent but did have some maturity issues which got him suspended from the Georgia Tech game which might drop him to the second. If not Brown there are many others who could fill the bill. But I don't think I would go that direction in the second anyway.

I would either pick up Kuechly in the first or a DT/DE. if we pick up Kuechly, then a DT/DE in the second. If we went DT/DE we would likely have to go BPA from available corners, linebackers, or a surprise pick who dropped down from the first whose value was too good to pass up like Kalil a few years ago. Mock drafts after the second round are really a waste of time because with all the flux after the first day, you really have to reset your board for day 2. There is no way you can accurately predict who is going to be there by round 3.

Jenkins will be a first rounder this year. someone will fall in love with his talent and take a chance on him when all is said and done.

as for brown, this dude no way in reality does this freak drop into the second. theres so many teams who needs lb help or dt. and you cant see cox but you can see brown due to issues at unc. remember that robert quinn was still picked in the first rd last year being one of those unc players with issues. i cant see him getting pass the patriots, eagles, giants, etc.

go tell anyone here on this board that we will we picking kuechly as our first pick and everyone would laugh their butt off. kuechly's body frame seems too small, could poss. play olb but thats not his natural position. kuechly had amazing stats (tackles) at boston college because the defense was set for him to be free and just make the tackles. hes not going to be able to be free like that in the nfl. agian why a LB when our biggest issue is at DT n CB. you got to be kidding me. i dont see us taking a lb until the fourth because senn, thomas wiliams, etc played good enough last year in my opinion. the only lb i see us if we take that high would be brown, not kuechly. im guessing you're just a huge fan of boston college?

[panthers55]

Given the jetisoning of Meeks, I was not sure what scheme we would end up running this year.

We will run a base zone scheme. That is what the Jim Johnson 4-3 uses, that is what Rivera ran in Chicago and San Diego and what we ran last year. Doesn't mean we won't mix things up and use man some of the time. After all if you use the same scheme all the time you are too predictable and easily abused but our base scheme will be zone.

[panthers55]

Jenkins will be a first rounder this year. someone will fall in love with his talent and take a chance on him when all is said and done.

as for brown, this dude no way in reality does this freak drop into the second. theres so many teams who needs lb help or than dt. and you cant see cox but you can see brown due to issues at unc. remember that robert quinn was still picked in the first rd last year being one of those unc players with issues.

go tell anyone here on this board that we will we picking kuechly as our first pick and everyone would laugh their butt off. kuechly is too small for mlb, could poss. play olb but thats not his natural position. kuechly had amazing stats (tackles) at boston college because the defense was set for him to be free and just make the tackles. hes not going to be able to be free like that in the nfl. agian why a LB when our biggest issue is at DT n CB. you got to be kidding me. i dont see us taking a lb until the fourth because senn, thomas wiliams, etc played good enough last year in my opinion. the only lb i see us if we take that high would be brown, not kuechly. im guessing you're just a huge fan of boston college?

I can see where someone would like Jenkins especially a team that is fine with character issue guys and runs a man scheme and you could be right about Brown as well. It is hard to figure out where players will be chosen so all of this is speculative.

As for Kuechly, I think you are way off base. Then again who said we would take Davis as our first pick or Beason. For that matter how many times has the huddle pick or the consensus of the draft pundits been the right one outside of Newton.

Why is a linebacker our biggest need? Because at corner we have Hogan, and at DT we drafted 2 guys in the third and have edwards coming back from IR. Plus the DT class is very deep and we can get great value in round 2. Corner is very deep as well. Davis is likely done and Beason is coming off major surgery. We have 1 linebacker in Anderson who is healthy and penciled in as a definite. Where else are we as thin?? Of course if we pick up a few guys in free agency, that could all change.

Why do I like Kuechly. I guess I just agree with the folks who voted him the best linebacker in football this year instead of Brown. The combine just cemented what I thought all along and confirmed that they were right. Am I fan of BC, not at all. I am a fan of good football and great players. Kuechly deserves to be called a great one in college.

[carpanfan96]

I can see where someone would like Jenkins especially a team that is fine with character issue guys and runs a man scheme and you could be right about Brown as well. It is hard to figure out where players will be chosen so all of this is speculative.

As for Kuechly, I think you are way off base. Then again who said we would take Davis as our first pick or Beason. For that matter how many times has the huddle pick or the consensus of the draft pundits been the right one outside of Newton.

Why is a linebacker our biggest need? Because at corner we have Hogan, and at DT we drafted 2 guys in the third and have edwards coming back from IR. Plus the DT class is very deep and we can get great value in round 2. Corner is very deep as well. Davis is likely done and Beason is coming off major surgery. We have 1 linebacker in Anderson who is healthy and penciled in as a definite. Where else are we as thin?? Of course if we pick up a few guys in free agency, that could all change.

Why do I like Kuechly. I guess I just agree with the folks who voted him the best linebacker in football this year instead of Brown. The combine just cemented what I thought all along and confirmed that they were right. Am I fan of BC, not at all. I am a fan of good football and great players. Kuechly deserves to be called a great one in college.

Agreed

Achilles tear's are too iffy to tell what kind of Beason is coming back, I doubt that TD ever makes it fully back to play a full season, which leaves the Panthers with a huge whole at LB. The team at least has some type of depth at CB with Butler and Hogan... Not really any at LB though with Conner likely gone, considering that after Beason and Davis went down, the Panthers LB played like poo for most of the season. That's a huge whole in a system that requires it's LB's to play really well. Why not pick the best LB to come out since Willis (I think he'll end up being just as good as Willis) when all the other players at the other position needs of the Panther's have serious question marks about either themselves or their on field production.

Trying to grasp why any one is questioning Kuechly as a OLB, when his game tape shows he can play well in coverage and his combine proved his athleticism (Not just 4ty, but his split and position drills were pretty good)

[carolina-chuck]

I can see where someone would like Jenkins especially a team that is fine with character issue guys and runs a man scheme and you could be right about Brown as well. It is hard to figure out where players will be chosen so all of this is speculative.

As for Kuechly, I think you are way off base. Then again who said we would take Davis as our first pick or Beason. For that matter how many times has the huddle pick or the consensus of the draft pundits been the right one outside of Newton.

Why is a linebacker our biggest need? Because at corner we have Hogan, and at DT we drafted 2 guys in the third and have edwards coming back from IR. Plus the DT class is very deep and we can get great value in round 2. Corner is very deep as well. Davis is likely done and Beason is coming off major surgery. We have 1 linebacker in Anderson who is healthy and penciled in as a definite. Where else are we as thin?? Of course if we pick up a few guys in free agency, that could all change.

Why do I like Kuechly. I guess I just agree with the folks who voted him the best linebacker in football this year instead of Brown. The combine just cemented what I thought all along and confirmed that they were right. Am I fan of BC, not at all. I am a fan of good football and great players. Kuechly deserves to be called a great one in college.

you and i watched hogan played about 10 snaps all of last year and you're set with hogan? jenkins is 10x the player hogan is.

and then now you change your words around and say there is the possibility of many dts we could get in the second. before that you said no way cox could fall into the second. like espn say it c'mon man.

beason had an achilles tendon problem , not ACL so im not worry at all esp. with beason having a full year to heal up.

bc kuechly ran a fast forty time doesnt mean hell be fast in the nfl. it takes getting off blocks to be fast to the call carrier in the nfl and not like in boston where everyone made free lanes for him to just go and make 200 tackles. dan connor had amzaing stats at penn what happen? average player. kuechly in my opinion is similar to sean lee cowboys but lee is a better player than kuechly. kuechly is not urlacher, lee, laurniatis, dan morgan etc. at best i say kuechly is going to be as good as barrett rudd only. still MLB is not our priority at all when we just gave beason a huge contract. kuechly is not an olb. will not play olb in the nfl. if we were going to a 34 then yes i see no reason why we wouldnt take kuechly

[panthers55]

Agreed

Achilles tear's are too iffy to tell what kind of Beason is coming back, I doubt that TD ever makes it fully back to play a full season, which leaves the Panthers with a huge whole at LB. The team at least has some type of depth at CB with Butler and Hogan... Not really any at LB though with Conner likely gone, considering that after Beason and Davis went down, the Panthers LB played like poo for most of the season. That's a huge whole in a system that requires it's LB's to play really well. Why not pick the best LB to come out since Willis (I think he'll end up being just as good as Willis) when all the other players at the other position needs of the Panther's have serious question marks about either themselves or their on field production.

Trying to grasp why any one is questioning Kuechly as a OLB, when his game tape shows he can play well in coverage and his combine proved his athleticism (Not just 4ty, but his split and position drills were pretty good)

Exactly. Add in 7 interceptions (2 pick sixes), 17 passes defended, and even a couple of sacks and what do people want??

Somehow people think Brown will be a better choice even though experts question his instincts and say he isn't physical enough. Yet another guy who ran almost as fast but it known to be smart, instinctual and physical and was rated the best linebacker in football is a stretch for us????????

02/23/2012 - NFL DRAFT SCOUT PRE-COMBINE TOP 64: 34. Zach Brown, OLB, North Carolina, 6-1, 236, 1-2...Brown is fast and fascinating, but is only beginning to learn how to maximize his exceptional athletic ability on a football field. He has an abundance of one natural ability that can't be taught -- speed. He officially set a school record in track with an indoor 60-meter time of 6.72 seconds in 2009. He unofficially was timed in 4.28 seconds for 40 yards by his football coaches. If Brown repeats that the Indianapolis Combine he will cause quite a stir. His raw athleticism is tantalizing, but he lacks the instincts to be a great linebacker and will need to add bulk to make a physical impression at the next level. Meantime, he can be a terror on special teams, same as he was in college.

- Frank Cooney - The Sports Xchange, NFL Draft Scout

http://www.profootballweekly.com/prospects/player/zach-brown-47/

Upside:

• Rare speed and acceleration

• Terrific closing burst

• Explosive leaper

• Extremely athletic

• Outstanding cover ability

• Effortless movement

• Blankets the field

Downside:

• Undisciplined on and off the field

• Not detail-oriented or assignment-sound

• Average instincts

• Plays too soft

• Not tough, physical

• Marginal listener

• Not a worker

The Way We See It:

Easily the fastest, most explosive and most athletic linebacker in the draft — and perhaps the rarest athlete in this draft class. However, too often coasts on his natural ability, has not figured out what it means to work and must toughen up to reach his immense potential.

[CRA]

you and i watched hogan played about 10 snaps all of last year and you're set with hogan? jenkins is 10x the player hogan is.

and then now you change your words around and say there is the possibility of many dts we could get in the second. before that you said no way cox could fall into the second. like espn say it c'mon man.

beason had an achilles tendon problem , not ACL so im not worry at all esp. with beason having a full year to heal up.

bc kuechly ran a fast forty time doesnt mean hell be fast in the nfl. it takes getting off blocks to be fast to the call carrier in the nfl and not like in boston where everyone made free lanes for him to just go and make 200 tackles. dan connor had amzaing stats at penn what happen? average player. kuechly in my opinion is similar to sean lee cowboys but lee is a better player than kuechly. kuechly is not urlacher, lee, laurniatis, dan morgan etc. at best i say kuechly is going to be as good as barrett only. still MLB is not our priority at all when we just gave beason a huge contract. kuechly is not an olb. will not play olb in the nfl.

The BC LB is a beast....not only did he shine at the combine but on the field as well. He is a kid that can step in and play early.

Can't compare him to Connor...what hurts Dan is his he doesn't have Luke's speed and coverage ability. Luke seems to be victim of a form of reverse racism. Nothing suggests this kid can't be a beast. Often the white LBs are the ones who just eat up tackles playing the run like Connor does....this kid ain't Dan Connor. Luke has a much broader skill set and more talent. If you think they are comparable LBs coming out you need to seek more information on the two players.

[carolina-chuck]

The BC LB is a beast....not only did he shine at the combine but on the field as well. He is a kid that can step in and play early.

Can't compare him to Connor...what hurts Dan is his he doesn't have Luke's speed and coverage ability. Luke seems to be victim a almost reverse racism. Nothing suggests this kid can't be a beast.

i know how amazing this kid is. what im saying is i dont see in anyway we draft this kid due to major help a dt and cb. i mean if we could somehow trade back get a second rd( taking a cb/dt there), or say trade back into the first and get kuechly or dt/cb, then yah all go for kuechly. but i would be shock if we take him over a cb or dt.

[CRA]

i know how amazing this kid is. what im saying is i dont see in anyway we draft this kid due to major help a dt and cb. i mean if we could somehow trade back get a second rd( taking a cb/dt there), or say trade back into the first and get kuechly or dt/cb, then yah all go for kuechly. but i would be shock if we take him over a cb or dt.

we need help at LB as well.

[panthers55]

you and i watched hogan played about 10 snaps all of last year and you're set with hogan? jenkins is 10x the player hogan is.

and then now you change your words around and say there is the possibility of many dts we could get in the second. before that you said no way cox could fall into the second. like espn say it c'mon man.

beason had an achilles tendon problem , not ACL so im not worry at all esp. with beason having a full year to heal up.

bc kuechly ran a fast forty time doesnt mean hell be fast in the nfl. it takes getting off blocks to be fast to the call carrier in the nfl and not like in boston where everyone made free lanes for him to just go and make 200 tackles. dan connor had amzaing stats at penn what happen? average player. kuechly in my opinion is similar to sean lee cowboys but lee is a better player than kuechly. kuechly is not urlacher, lee, laurniatis, dan morgan etc. at best i say kuechly is going to be as good as barrett rudd only. still MLB is not our priority at all when we just gave beason a huge contract. kuechly is not an olb. will not play olb in the nfl. if we were going to a 34 then yes i see no reason why we wouldnt take kuechly

Obviously you want to pick a fight because I didn't like your mock draft. If you can't stand criticism then don't post it and ask for feedback. I have pointed out where I stand and what I like and don't so take it for what it is worth. It isn't as if I am an expert either. I don't agree with your analysis, don't like Jenkins with his baggage and think Brown is too soft and undisciplined to be a first round talent. I know that Kuechly will be the best linebacker on our team at any position and think that Hogan will live up to his potential. If we draft a corner I don't want it in the first or second.

Lighten up Francis, if you plan to take things so personally then stop asking for feedback. Sheeesh........

[carpanfan96]

you and i watched hogan played about 10 snaps all of last year and you're set with hogan? jenkins is 10x the player hogan is.

and then now you change your words around and say there is the possibility of many dts we could get in the second. before that you said no way cox could fall into the second. like espn say it c'mon man.

beason had an achilles tendon problem , not ACL so im not worry at all esp. with beason having a full year to heal up.

bc kuechly ran a fast forty time doesnt mean hell be fast in the nfl. it takes getting off blocks to be fast to the call carrier in the nfl and not like in boston where everyone made free lanes for him to just go and make 200 tackles. dan connor had amzaing stats at penn what happen? average player. kuechly in my opinion is similar to sean lee cowboys but lee is a better player than kuechly. kuechly is not urlacher, lee, laurniatis, dan morgan etc. at best i say kuechly is going to be as good as barrett rudd only. still MLB is not our priority at all when we just gave beason a huge contract. kuechly is not an olb. will not play olb in the nfl. if we were going to a 34 then yes i see no reason why we wouldnt take kuechly

Umm, an Achilles tear is worse. I mean way worse then an ACL tear. It's probably the worst injury a football player can get. It's the key muscle used when exploding into hits and out of stance. Most players that come back from it, aren't as fast or explosive.

Also Kuechly ran that 4ty after he added muscle to his frame (he's heavier then he ever was at BC, he also had a pretty good BP as well with 27 reps (9 more then Brockers).

we need help at LB as well.

It's a major need, unless Beason comes back as himself (questionable, seriously questionable) Thomas Davis comes back as himself with two wheels that aren't falling off (doubtful, it be a miracle.) Then the Panther's have 1 starting caliber linebacker on the team.